Remove MF completely from game

Agree with OP

MF hurts the game. If you want to do well in end-gaem, you have to spend a lot of MF gear... and MF gear usually makes your character weaker

It is just a wrong way

I am level 55 and didn't realize the end-game content was so reliant on that. It sounds tedious to grind for and pointless to even attempt. I'll probably play the game less if I get to that point.

I think MF is ok on map affixes/quality. But please, NO MF on gear or gems.

It kills build diversity, making buids that can't afford all that MF a lot less interesting!

I still argue fast clear speed trumps slow clear speed + mf . Trigger gems have changed the game in regards to options for dealing with reflect and clear speed focused characters are more viable than ever. If MF wasnt an option, every build would be clear speed oriented, and we would be in the very same situation with people claiming you 'have to use x kinda build to compete in the economy', and they would be more correct than the current complaints about mf.

Magic find is by FAR my least favorite mechanic in any game it appears in. I just want to play a variety of fun builds and wear the best equip i can find. MF saps so much fun out of finding that perfect piece of gear. You WANT to use it, but it will likely stay shelved in favor of more magic find BS so you dont wonder after every boss kill "hmm, i bet i could have done that with my MF gear instead and gotten better drops".

well. I personally think magic find is the coolest affix you can get. makes my screen colourful when i push alt

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Moist wrote:

well. I personally think magic find is the coolest affix you can get. makes my screen colourful when i push alt

You're not alone.

From a play psychology perspective, removing MF completely from the game is kind of like removing Life from all gear, or removing DPS from all gear. MF is something which some players play for. It is their motivation for progression, and a large part of the reason they play Path of Exile in the first place.

I'm not against balance, and if MF was and/or is too powerful, I have no problem with nerfing it (or, alternatively, buffing everything else). But removing it completely from the game is unnecessary, and would alienate too much of the playerbase. Just give it fair numbers, or change its mechanics up somewhat to make it less universal while keeping the same core objective, leading to more specialized MF options.

Completely removing it is a stupid idea.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Moist wrote:

well. I personally think magic find is the coolest affix you can get. makes my screen colourful when i push alt

You're not alone.

From a play psychology perspective, removing MF completely from the game is kind of like removing Life from all gear, or removing DPS from all gear. MF is something which some players play for. It is their motivation for progression, and a large part of the reason they play Path of Exile in the first place.

I'm not against balance, and if MF was and/or is too powerful, I have no problem with nerfing it (or, alternatively, buffing everything else). But removing it completely from the game is unnecessary, and would alienate too much of the playerbase. Just give it fair numbers, or change its mechanics up somewhat to make it less universal while keeping the same core objective, leading to more specialized MF options.

Completely removing it is a stupid idea.

The big problem though is that since builds can never be balanced because the system is designed to endorse inbalances (to avoid making everything seem the same) making it so that these mods can never be fairly used across the field. Some builds get can immense amounts of magic find and not sacrifice survivalbility or damage but most others cannot. It not the magic find causing an issue, but rather the fact that we can make builds that surpass others in all catagories and still can stack magic find skyhigh that highlights the issues though.. and not through skilled play but instead using known 'OP' builds that become popular until they get nerfed.


Since we can't normalize builds without making building a character bland... that leaves normalizing magic find (rarity & quantity) to make these build inbalances/exploits less of the deciding factor in one's overall wealth. And if it's not a deciding factor in one's wealth, then what is being traded off for it's use because it's not something that should be stacked for free?.... and how can you apply those tradeoff costs across the numerous potential builds in a way that doesn't only work in the favor of a few select ones?


It's not just a balancing act... I think it may just be an impossible task to do in a fair manner at all.

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Jiero wrote:

The big problem though is that since builds can never be balanced because the system is designed to endorse inbalances (to avoid making everything seem the same) making it so that these mods can never be fairly used across the field. Some builds get can immense amounts of magic find and not sacrifice survivalbility or damage but most others cannot. It not the magic find causing an issue, but rather the fact that we can make builds that surpass others in all catagories and still can stack magic find skyhigh that highlights the issues though.. and not through skilled play but instead using known 'OP' builds that become popular until they get nerfed.


Since we can't normalize builds without making building a character bland...

How did you go from "balance" to "normalize?"

An example of a perfectly balanced game is Starcraft (the first one). That game was played on television in Korea for decades, with major tournaments broadcasted. And a large part of the reason for its continued popularity was the utterly unnormalized but still perfectly balanced relationships between the three races in that game. It wasn't bland, it was just well-tuned.

You're calling it quits on build balance when there's no good justification for doing so. As a result, you are blaming MF for something which is not its fault.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

How did you go from "balance" to "normalize?"

An example of a perfectly balanced game is Starcraft (the first one). That game was played on television in Korea for decades, with major tournaments broadcasted. And a large part of the reason for its continued popularity was the utterly unnormalized but still perfectly balanced relationships between the three races in that game. It wasn't bland, it was just well-tuned.

You're calling it quits on build balance when there's no good justification for doing so. As a result, you are blaming MF for something which is not its fault.

Normalization being balance of objects based on numerous internal values in a manner that brings them roughly equal according to the sum of it's total parts over a period of time. Achieving balance through layers of intended system inbalances over a period of time.

Starcraft was a competitive style game (even in pve) with the sides balanced to counter each other and themselves. It did have some unit overlap and was far more limited in scope and had no unit customization or object permanence. Starcraft was in the end a normalized system of inbalances, because what it gave on one end was taken away somewhere else and not always equally or at the same time but that lead to a system we can call balanced in the end even though balance refers to equalization in the short term and isn't really applicable to more then a specific scenario in the given static time frame.


Compare that to the level span, passive tree, gear setups, gem setups and the total variability of stats. The possible differences in starcraft doesn't even slightly compare to any ARPG. Its possible in a static RTS because everyone is using a small pool of static resources... ARPGs don't operate in the same manner and its a task that I doubt is possible by any team a company making a game can afford.

Yep, I do call it quits hoping for true balance in a diverse arpg in a way that doesn't make the game bland... it has never and likely will never happen.