Why does Lioneye's Glare have no drawback?

I actually had an idea that would fit the idea of a high speed sniper bow, but it would be too fast with GMP.

Additional Projectiles Fire Individually
Projectiles Cannot Fork or Chain (Seriously, regardless of LMP removal being too much for most people, this is not. It forces people to think a bit differently, and chain is definitely NOT manditory, or even optimal, with most bow skills)

The problem with this is how fast the bow already is. It would turn most people using it (most people have around 3aps with lioneye) into bulds with 9 attacks per second, and GMP would turn it into 15 attacks per second.
It would be fun in an offline game to have this, but it causes issues with PoE when you get much higher than 10aps.

9APS isn't too too bad, but 15 i can see causing problems.

It essentially turns LMP and GMP into ranged multistrike.

Lowering the speed of the bow to compensate, however, would just turn it into a slightly faster version of what it already is, but without LMP, which is not the idea. Rather the idea is to keep a similar power level, but change the utility and aiming method.

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Xendran wrote:

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KoTao wrote:

I think removing the flat phys mod would be enough, no need for extravagant measures here. The cb version was balanced just fine.

First of all, check how gigantic of a dps difference that makes, even with a crit build. It's way more of a loss than you realise.

Second, why don't we change it in a way that makes the bow actually unique, and function differently than other bows?

It puts the bow back to mediocre-with-an-upside status, which is what it was in cb. Admittedly, the upside isnt what it once was, as rt was at least 5 points to reach on the old passive tree while its 1 now, and there was less reason to be near rt on that tree if you didnt want it in the first place.

Your no fork/chain/multiproj change seems fine too, doesnt have to be a direct damage nerf. I dont really care how it gets balanced, as long as it does.

If the game is capable of handling extreme amounts of APS, i would actually prefer the individual projectile firing. It would be interesting seeing absurd attack speed with a high power bow (while you have the correct gems) in exchange for not being able to multiproj.

And before the claims of "but that makes LMP or GMP mandatory!1!1!!1"

LMP already is mandatory for bow AoE. Nothing would change in that regard. There is nothing wrong with this. LMP is the "Turn it into an AoE" skill, so if you want an AoE on a skill with either a tiny aoe, or no aoe, you have to use the skill that turns it into one. Makes perfect sense. In this case it becomes the "less individual damage, ridiculous speed" skill.

You could still use it just like LMP, but you would have to aim it manually, and there would be less simultaneous hits of group clearing with it.

I do think that with that change, the AS could be nerfed down to 5-14%.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

Surely if the Always Hits was changed to RT it would also be retroactive on all the bows as it is a change to the entire stat & not just an adjustment of the values. See the change to Voll's & Silverbranch for the difference between the 2. So that would mean that the old Lioneye's wouldn't become legacy items.

What I really fear is that GGG do decide to make a change but in the process make the old ones Legacy making a bad situation WAAY worse. Having a "no more wipes" attitude should hopefully men they are also going to do their best to not make legacy items a big thing but as the new league amulets & rings are apparently not going to drop in Standard after the leagues end maybe they just don't give a damn about that stuff(?).

Yeah it really seems like the only option they can go with, plus no crits is likely to be a more than good enough downside. Especially if they ever add a physical crit effect.

Lioneye's Glare is as strong as it is because of accuracy, its scaling and the silly hard cap on chance to hit. I never saw the need for capping it at 95% honestly. Before we look at item balance, we need to understand the underlying problem behind why the item is as strong as it is.

Accuracy is shit. Even RANGERS have problems with it and with the 95% CtH cap, naturally people would gravitate towards a LG because it offers something beyond the scope of normal bows: a 5% overcap on accuracy. If it were easier and possible to actually cap CtH, people would actually be motivated to get rare bows (not necessarily pure phys) that beat a LG in terms of on-paper DPS.

I always saw it as the best alternative because of accuracy. Otherwise I might've just gone with a very well rolled Thicket Bow.

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

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KoTao wrote:

Math in the op is off- rare bows cant get the top ias mod, they top out at 11-13%.

I didn't know that, and it's certainly not clarified in the item data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ArsB7KohOhhpdHoyZzU2WVZZNXQxMDg4MVk1b0FGbkE&f=true&noheader=true&gid=3

Does better.

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Lyralei wrote:

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Charanjaydemyr wrote:

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KoTao wrote:

Math in the op is off- rare bows cant get the top ias mod, they top out at 11-13%.

I didn't know that, and it's certainly not clarified in the item data.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0ArsB7KohOhhpdHoyZzU2WVZZNXQxMDg4MVk1b0FGbkE&f=true&noheader=true&gid=3

Does better.

Yep, always go to the mods compendium if possible. I've also mentioned it in one of my previous posts:

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Athoy wrote:

... Now lets look at Lioneye. The phys % dmg roll isn't even close to ~250% like a rare could roll. The local min/max phys dmg is also not nearly as high as a rare can possibly roll. What makes Lioneye strong and a unique is the mana since bows can't roll +mana, the attack speed is 7% higher than what a rare could roll (max is 13% on a rare), and the hits can't be evaded (although a rare bow can get a very high accuracy roll). ...

Edit: The mods compendium is wrong--bows can only get up to 13% which is within the 11-13% tier as Lyralei stated

long thread but I pretty much agree with everything said here.

it's way too good of an item without any drawback. top players I see on streams are always using it.


it wouldnt be that big of a deal if there were more uniques OP like that, but there really arent that many (shavronnes, kaom and thats about it ?) and even then kaoms arguably has a big drawback (no sockets)...at least its cheaper on the market than these other two

I feel like having BiS item be a unique in this game given the state of most other uniques is misguided. Not only do you render 99% other bows less wanted and useful, you also pigeonhole people into getting one.

I really think the idea of firing additional projectiles separate to create a giant IAS buff when using LMP and GMP in exchange for not getting the AoE from it, while simultaneously nerfing it's implicit attack speed down by half or so would be a good way to handle it if the game was capable of handing around 15 attacks per second.

Even Kaoms and Shavronne's have drawbacks when compared to other GG chestpieces(lack of sockets and relatively low endgame ES respectively)- Lionseye's Glare should as well.


Honestly I think the simplest solution would be to convert "attacks can't be evaded" to a ranged-combat conversion of Resolute technique- which is to say have it prevent crits.