Lioneye's Glare - Possibility for a nerf on an overpowered item?

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_Seze_ wrote:

2) Someone payed 1k $ to make Lioneye to play his pew pew pew ranger, so it's aint changing, there u have it.

Lioneye's existed before supporter packs existed. It's a very old unique and before OB, used to be on a lvl 50 bow with much, much less damage. It was still used then, too, because the auto-hitting effect is extremely strong.

As a general rule, if the name of the unique references PoE Lore (Lioneye being a pretty famous person on Wraeclast), it's a GGG unique.

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deteego wrote:

Until you factor in the fact that LG will never miss, which means that you can run crit damage/chance on the bow (which you cant do if you are running Resolute Technique). Either that, or you are forced to use increased accuracy on that other bow, which basically puts it at -1 gem slot

Everyone that is just taking raw DPS values of lioneyes are doing a disservice, the massive part of Lioneyes is the fact that due it never missing


Show me a 400 DPS bow that always hits

Because until you do, Lioneyes actual DPS, when you factor in crit chance/crit damage + extra nodes that you save from not having to travel across the tree, it will most likely be higher than that 400 DPS bow ;)

If you read any of my posts you would see I did factor that in. I mention Projectile weakness multiple times, which is hands down the best dps curse for a bow user. It makes it so you essentially have up to 68% hit against them. Which negates the need for ANY accuracy talents or on +acc gear. The accuracy from dex would be enough.

The dps you gain by using a good rare would outweigh the fact that there a handful of mobs you'll encounter in a given map that are immune to curses. Not to mention once you start approaching the 420 dps + bows you'll be doing more damage even while missing.

I'm also going to also assume you missed out on the fact that RoA always hits, regardless of your hit chance. This further devalues one of the saving graces of LG which is the hits can not be evaded. (The other being that it's a 320~ dps bow that's pretty easy to get)

So yes, if you can't use projectile weakness, aren't using RoA, and don't pick up RT for the 1 shot protection. You may be better off with the LG until we start seeing some 400+ dps bows. But for me, even a 350 dps bow > 330 dps bow.

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riptid3 wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Until you factor in the fact that LG will never miss, which means that you can run crit damage/chance on the bow (which you cant do if you are running Resolute Technique). Either that, or you are forced to use increased accuracy on that other bow, which basically puts it at -1 gem slot

Everyone that is just taking raw DPS values of lioneyes are doing a disservice, the massive part of Lioneyes is the fact that due it never missing


Show me a 400 DPS bow that always hits

Because until you do, Lioneyes actual DPS, when you factor in crit chance/crit damage + extra nodes that you save from not having to travel across the tree, it will most likely be higher than that 400 DPS bow ;)

If you read any of my posts you would see I did factor that in. I mention Projectile weakness multiple times, which is hands down the best dps curse for a bow user. It makes it so you essentially have up to 68% hit against them. Which negates the need for ANY accuracy talents or on +acc gear. The accuracy from dex would be enough.

I did read them

For one thing, you are using a curse to mitigate a weakness (accuracy), a Lioneyes user would have their own set of curses (such as vulnerability) which they use to make themselves even stronger, which puts the LG back on a higher level

More importantly, being forced to run a curse isn't always the best idea. In endgame maps, a lot of players run defensive curses for obvious reasons, you are kinda side tracked if you are forced to use a curse just to deal with a gaping weakness. A lot of people run stuff like temporal chains to deal with charging mobs, amongst other things.

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riptid3 wrote:

The dps you gain by using a good rare would outweigh the fact that there a handful of mobs you'll encounter in a given map that are immune to curses. Not to mention once you start approaching the 420 dps + bows you'll be doing more damage even while missing.

You are ignoring that PoE is not a game of averages. The fact that you can clear mods that don't have some difficult mobs is irrelevant, 95% of builds/item combinations can do that.

What matters is dealing with the content that is troubling you, and any endgame Curse Immunity + other random shit elite is going to throw havoc on the bow user. Caster builds get around this by using penetration gems (which ignore curse immunity and cant get avoided), bad accuracy users get around this by either using RT or the increased accuracy gem. Either that or you are going to have to spend a good 20-30 nodes on accuracy, or be really luck and get some ridiculous accuracy roll on that 400-500 dps bow as well

Lioneyes glare will do very high damage regardless of the target, you don't have to worry about curse immunity, or anything at all really apart from reflect (which is something everyone has to deal with, and you can easily gem swap with a ranged attack totem)

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riptid3 wrote:

So yes, if you can't use projectile weakness, aren't using RoA, and don't pick up RT for the 1 shot protection. You may be better off with the LG until we start seeing some 400+ dps bows. But for me, even a 350 dps bow > 330 dps bow.

You do realize you save like 25 nodes from not having to go to get RT in the first place (which can easily mitigate any sought of weakness that you can think of with Lioneyes), that and you can crit with a Lioneyes due to not having RT?

Without RT, you can stay in the duelist/ranger/shadow area (which now has more than enough life nodes) and you can get some more nodes either on damage or survivability

As I said, the reason why Lioneyes isn't seen as OP is because of the shitty state of ranged physical damage in general. Lioneyes wouldn't be so strong if accuracy is such a limiting factor in the game, but while it is Lioneyes is borderline overpowered.

Any other comparable unique that grants keystones passives with no downside have shitty stats (or some other detriment). This isn't the case of Lioneyes. If more content gets released (we start seeing some 600-700 dps bows) then that may change, but until then this point still stands

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deteego wrote:

You do realize you save like 25 nodes from not having to go to get RT in the first place (which can easily mitigate any sought of weakness that you can think of with Lioneyes), that and you can crit with a Lioneyes due to not having RT?

Without RT, you can stay in the duelist/ranger/shadow area (which now has more than enough life nodes) and you can get some more nodes either on damage or survivability

Actually, most everyone goes for catalyze and stop off in marauder for elemental adaptation. You save 3 points.

Secondly Projectile weakness > vulnerability(unless you're PA in which case you don't need hit). You're not doing the math, 34% of projectile dmg > 34% of physical dmg. Even IF you were a physical build you would still run anger/wrath/hatred. Not to mention there are way more projectile users than there are physical melee.


Secondly it is about averages. Besides there's not a single curse immune pack that is going to kill me because I don't have a LG but have a 400 dps bow instead.
However, I could tell you there's plenty of packs that could kill me if I had the bow I wanted and didn't have RT. That wouldn't happen with Lionseye as easily because it does low dmg compared to what is possible.


Please use logic rather than feeling to point out why LG is this special gem that quite a few of us don't understand.

Btw, I read in some other thread ( Gankstaboo's guide since that's where I asked ) that the fact that RoA doesn't miss is a bug.
And should be fixed, maybe not very soon, but should in the future still.

For just above, I would just say that apparently, a lot of elemental ranger build are going to static blows, so for them, it is not 25 points away. Still, going all that far for static blows and some elemental nodes seems a lot if RT is not needed anymore, and it enables easily then physical builds, which seem to be underestimated atm.

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riptid3 wrote:

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deteego wrote:

You do realize you save like 25 nodes from not having to go to get RT in the first place (which can easily mitigate any sought of weakness that you can think of with Lioneyes), that and you can crit with a Lioneyes due to not having RT?

Without RT, you can stay in the duelist/ranger/shadow area (which now has more than enough life nodes) and you can get some more nodes either on damage or survivability

Actually, most everyone goes for catalyze and stop off in marauder for elemental adaptation. You save 3 points.

Yes, if you are doing elemental bow and heading for RT

But if you start off where the ranger (or dueler starts), you can get as many life passives + resits without having to travel so far, which means you get an advantage of around 15 nodes which you can dedicate purely to damage (or more survivability)

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riptid3 wrote:

Secondly Projectile weakness > vulnerability(unless you're PA in which case you don't need hit). You're not doing the math, 34% of projectile dmg > 34% of physical dmg. Even IF you were a physical build you would still run anger/wrath/hatred. Not to mention there are way more projectile users than there are physical melee.

Vulnerability is not just damage, with high physical damage + reduced stun threshold you can perma stun mobs with it

It was just an example in any case, there are plenty of other curses you can roll

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riptid3 wrote:

Secondly it is about averages. Besides there's not a single curse immune pack that is going to kill me because I don't have a LG but have a 400 dps bow instead. However, I could tell you there's plenty of packs that could kill me if I had the bow I wanted and didn't have RT.

No it isn't, if it was about averages the game currently wouldn't have around 15 endgame viable builds (and that includes there other variations)

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riptid3 wrote:

Please use logic rather than feeling to point out why LG is this special gem that quite a few of us don't understand.

Please dont post irrelevant rhetoric, like this one here

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Fruz wrote:

Btw, I read in some other thread ( Gankstaboo's guide since that's where I asked ) that the fact that RoA doesn't miss is a bug.
And should be fixed, maybe not very soon, but should in the future still.

For just above, I would just say that apparently, a lot of elemental ranger build are going to static blows, so for them, it is not 25 points away. Still, going all that far for static blows and some elemental nodes seems a lot if RT is not needed anymore, and it enables easily then physical builds, which seem to be underestimated atm.

Precisely

What people are forgetting is the massive tree investment that LG saves on. The fact that people right now are running elemental bows and going to marauder (or even starting off there) is irrelevant to the discussion, Lioneyes is a physical damage bow, not an elemental one, which means it should be compared to other physical damage bow builds, not elemental ones

As a physical damage user, there is no reason to go to the marauder section of the tree now (unless you are melee and you need that extra survivability), unless you want to fix the gaping issue of accuracy, which is the whole point I am making

You had to go there before because of the shitty life passives in the duelist area, which got fixed some time back

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deteego wrote:

Precisely

What people are forgetting is the massive tree investment that LG saves on. The fact that people right now are running elemental bows and going to marauder (or even starting off there) is irrelevant to the discussion, Lioneyes is a physical damage bow, not an elemental one, which means it should be compared to other physical damage bow builds, not elemental ones

As a physical damage user, there is no reason to go to the marauder section of the tree now (unless you are melee and you need that extra survivability), unless you want to fix the gaping issue of accuracy, which is the whole point I am making

You had to go there before because of the shitty life passives in the duelist area, which got fixed some time back

I'm RoA and built very similar to LA. I prefer physical bows and will pick up physical dmg too.

Catalyze + anger + wrath + hatred + inner force +iron grip + point blank is going to be a HUGE boost for anyone. Physical or otherwise. Also, I don't think you realize how many physical users would still use WED and added fire.

Considering how much defense I gain by getting -mana reservation to run more auras + elemental adaption and iron grip. There's very little you could build with those points that are better than that.

Besides with the above build you still have points to get heartstrike/heartseeker or all the phys nodes by point blank. I don't value nodes that have accuracy because weakness takes care of that for me. (when I use ice shot and if they ever *fix* roa)

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riptid3 wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Precisely

What people are forgetting is the massive tree investment that LG saves on. The fact that people right now are running elemental bows and going to marauder (or even starting off there) is irrelevant to the discussion, Lioneyes is a physical damage bow, not an elemental one, which means it should be compared to other physical damage bow builds, not elemental ones

As a physical damage user, there is no reason to go to the marauder section of the tree now (unless you are melee and you need that extra survivability), unless you want to fix the gaping issue of accuracy, which is the whole point I am making

You had to go there before because of the shitty life passives in the duelist area, which got fixed some time back

I'm RoA and built very similar to LA. I prefer physical bows and will pick up physical dmg too.

Catalyze + anger + wrath + hatred + inner force +iron grip + point blank is going to be a HUGE boost for anyone. Physical or otherwise.

Considering how much defense I gain by getting -mana reservation to run more auras + elemental adaption and iron grip. There's very little you could build with those points that are better than that.

Besides with the above build you still have points to get heartstrike/heartseeker or all the phys nodes by point blank. I don't value nodes that have accuracy because weakness takes care of that for me. (when I use ice shot and if they ever *fix* roa)


I don't think you realize how many physical users would still use WED and added fire.

Yeah and my point is, if you had a LG, you would do be overall stronger (with an adjusted tree) compared to what you are doing now

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deteego wrote:

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riptid3 wrote:

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deteego wrote:

Precisely

What people are forgetting is the massive tree investment that LG saves on. The fact that people right now are running elemental bows and going to marauder (or even starting off there) is irrelevant to the discussion, Lioneyes is a physical damage bow, not an elemental one, which means it should be compared to other physical damage bow builds, not elemental ones

As a physical damage user, there is no reason to go to the marauder section of the tree now (unless you are melee and you need that extra survivability), unless you want to fix the gaping issue of accuracy, which is the whole point I am making

You had to go there before because of the shitty life passives in the duelist area, which got fixed some time back

I'm RoA and built very similar to LA. I prefer physical bows and will pick up physical dmg too.

Catalyze + anger + wrath + hatred + inner force +iron grip + point blank is going to be a HUGE boost for anyone. Physical or otherwise.

Considering how much defense I gain by getting -mana reservation to run more auras + elemental adaption and iron grip. There's very little you could build with those points that are better than that.

Besides with the above build you still have points to get heartstrike/heartseeker or all the phys nodes by point blank. I don't value nodes that have accuracy because weakness takes care of that for me. (when I use ice shot and if they ever *fix* roa)


I don't think you realize how many physical users would still use WED and added fire.

Yeah and my point is, if you had a LG, you would do be overall stronger (with an adjusted tree) compared to what you are doing now

No, I wouldn't. I never miss and my tree wouldn't change at all. Besides, my bow is better than LG and there's still a lot of room for improvement.

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riptid3 wrote:

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Yeah and my point is, if you had a LG, you would do be overall stronger (with an adjusted tree) compared to what you are doing now

No, I wouldn't. I never miss and my tree wouldn't change at all. Besides, my bow is better than LG and there's still a lot of room for improvement.

No he would not have more damage. His bow is better than a lioneyes for the build he is running.
His bow is precisely the bow i am searching for aswell since i am running a similar build.
I have a worse bow than him, but my bow is close enough to a LG for the particular build i am running that it is not worth getting a lioneyes, but instead i am searching for a rare bow like riptide3´s.

Stop sprouting shit already, LG isnt god in ultra late. Its a decent bow that many will consider incredibly strong because they will never see anything better than that, nor will they have anything that comes remotely close to the LG itself.
I already have seen better bows and i am already searching for a better bow because i am at that treshold aswell.
Whats the point of nerfing a unique that is ALREADY being surpassed by other bows, not just in theory.
Even the just in theory part should be sufficient to completely close down this thread, but the reality is that there are already better bows for specific builds.

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Show me a 400 DPS bow that always hits

Because until you do, Lioneyes actual DPS, when you factor in crit chance/crit damage + extra nodes that you save from not having to travel across the tree, it will most likely be higher than that 400 DPS bow ;)

RoA never misses, thus i dont have to change my tree at all, regardless of LG or not. LG´s actual dps is not higher than a 300 dps bow with critical strike chance on it (it increases the base critical strike chance), let alone 400 dps bow.
I know because i already tried.
You have no clue of some mechanics in this game and keep sprouting nonsense.

You guys should probably turn this into an "accuracy sucks" thread instead, because that is what you are actually concerned about i have the feeling.