No respec options? No thanks.

I'm for keeping the current respec system, not because it's suitably strict or anything but just to keep away the type of players who would whine about it in the forums.

Good riddance.

All this does is make it harder on theorycrafters.

After a couple months people will just get online and look up the best builds. So, these "hardcore" arguments are trivial.

"

Kabraxis wrote:

And as conslusion to this discussion (form my side) i will give D2 example.

D2LOD, the best aRPG in history dont offer respecs at all for 9 years or something.... but now we have (as forst post mentions) 2012, reality has changed and now D2LOD offers three full respecs per char.

Don't ignore the fact that D2 managed to keep many thousands of players for 10 years without respecs, and still would have kept many thousands if they never added respecs.

Blizzard didn't add respecs because times have changed. They added them because it didn't change their game much at all. The game has inherent flaws that allow you to skip most of the game and grind levels very quickly. A rebuild up to 85 takes just a few hours; it can easily be done in a day. Respecing a few times in D2 isn't saving a whole lot of the player's time, and Blizzard recognized this.

The quick-grind methods of D2 are being designed against in PoE. They were major design flaws, and GGG has learned from Blizzard's mistakes in that area. PoE's system encourages you to play the content, not skip most of it like D2's. Since it takes longer to level up in PoE (comparing levels linearly), having free respecs in favor of rebuilding saves the player a lot more time.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

"

Kabraxis wrote:

And as conslusion to this discussion (form my side) i will give D2 example.

D2LOD, the best aRPG in history dont offer respecs at all for 9 years or something.... but now we have (as forst post mentions) 2012, reality has changed and now D2LOD offers three full respecs per char.

Don't ignore the fact that D2 managed to keep many thousands of players for 10 years without respecs, and still would have kept many thousands if they never added respecs.

Blizzard didn't add respecs because times have changed. They added them because it didn't change their game much at all. The game has inherent flaws that allow you to skip most of the game and grind levels very quickly. A rebuild up to 85 takes just a few hours; it can easily be done in a day. Respecing a few times in D2 isn't saving a whole lot of the player's time, and Blizzard recognized this.

The quick-grind methods of D2 are being designed against in PoE. They were major design flaws, and GGG has learned from Blizzard's mistakes in that area. PoE's system encourages you to play the content, not skip most of it like D2's. Since it takes longer to level up in PoE (comparing levels linearly), having free respecs in favor of rebuilding saves the player a lot more time.

No and no... they specifically stated they added respec because players did want full respec for long time. Yes..these players just found way to bypass whole "non-respec" system by rushing content utilizing high level characters and portals.. but it was just band aid.

In short.. no respec system was flaw, rushing content was band aid.. not vice - versa.

If anything I'd prefer a third league for full respecs, aka sandbox league (I stole the idea from another thread, credits to whoever wrote it). Preferably they'd also make orb of regrets harder to get or even remove them entirely as you could try stuff out in sandbox league anyway.

It would solve most of the issues from both sides here, although personally I think the system is fine as it is.

"

ManiaCCC wrote:

No and no... they specifically stated they added respec because players did want full respec for long time. Yes..these players just found way to bypass whole "non-respec" system by rushing content utilizing high level characters and portals.. but it was just band aid.

In short.. no respec system was flaw, rushing content was band aid.. not vice - versa.

I don't take anything Blizzard says as truth until proven, especially when dealing with their points of view. The relevant fact is still fact: people played D2 for years without respecs. I seriously doubt enough players quit or threatened to quit because free respecs weren't available to make Blizzard have an epiphany. The logic here supports my theory, not what Blizzard says. Not having a feature isn't a flaw, but being able to exploit the game's mechanics is.

Regardless of why Blizzard took that action, if PoE could get as long a life as D2 did without free respecs, or even half that time, it would surely be a success.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

"

Kabraxis wrote:

And as conslusion to this discussion (form my side) i will give D2 example.

D2LOD, the best aRPG in history dont offer respecs at all for 9 years or something.... but now we have (as forst post mentions) 2012, reality has changed and now D2LOD offers three full respecs per char.

Don't ignore the fact that D2 managed to keep many thousands of players for 10 years without respecs, and still would have kept many thousands if they never added respecs.

Blizzard didn't add respecs because times have changed. They added them because it didn't change their game much at all. The game has inherent flaws that allow you to skip most of the game and grind levels very quickly. A rebuild up to 85 takes just a few hours; it can easily be done in a day. Respecing a few times in D2 isn't saving a whole lot of the player's time, and Blizzard recognized this.

The quick-grind methods of D2 are being designed against in PoE. They were major design flaws, and GGG has learned from Blizzard's mistakes in that area. PoE's system encourages you to play the content, not skip most of it like D2's. Since it takes longer to level up in PoE (comparing levels linearly), having free respecs in favor of rebuilding saves the player a lot more time.

Diablo 2 managed to keep many thousands of players for 10 years without respecs because they have no competition at all. PoE will have VERY STRONG competition - D3 and Torchlight 2 in 2012 alone, then Grim Dawn and new Lineage HnS in 2013. im preety sure that all of these games will have full respecs.

Rest of your post is bullshit so sorry but i will not refer to it.

Another message to GGG - its not good to cater to 1999 dessign philosophy IN EVERYTHING to please minority of players. And not having respecs is not "hardcore", its simply old and stinky design.


"I don't take anything Blizzard says as truth until proven, especially when dealing with their points of view. "

So i strongly recommend doind the same with anythin that you or GGG says.
Honestly after this statement i dont even consider you as a serious disscutant. "i know better" lolz.
No offense but if more Alpha players are like you is not suprising that PoE has so much design flaws and decisions warped back from 1990 and punishing players in "hardcore' way (RNG crafting that gives you everything besides fun and sense of accomplishment and reward for example).

When i read topics like this i must admit that some ppl forgot that games are made to deliver:

1. fun and enjoyment for players (not second work - not in 2012)
2. cash for developers

many of responds in this threads dont take both of above into any consideration.

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

"

ManiaCCC wrote:

No and no... they specifically stated they added respec because players did want full respec for long time. Yes..these players just found way to bypass whole "non-respec" system by rushing content utilizing high level characters and portals.. but it was just band aid.

In short.. no respec system was flaw, rushing content was band aid.. not vice - versa.

I don't take anything Blizzard says as truth until proven, especially when dealing with their points of view. The relevant fact is still fact: people played D2 for years without respecs. I seriously doubt enough players quit or threatened to quit because free respecs weren't available to make Blizzard have an epiphany. The logic here supports my theory, not what Blizzard says. Not having a feature isn't a flaw, but being able to exploit the game's mechanics is.

Regardless of why Blizzard took that action, if PoE could get as long a life as D2 did without free respecs, or even half that time, it would surely be a success.

Actually there is big logic flaw in your theory. Think about it for a second.

Can we agree that rushing content to get high level as fast as possible was just boring mandatory task? If yes.. look at it...what does more sense to you?


That people were doing some boring mandatory task just to try different build? Or they were just trying different build because they were able to in the process of some mandatory boring task which they were doing for unknown reason?

Fact is.. D2 players were asking for full respec for years..and while this wasn't possible they were utilizing rushing content to achieve these "full respecs".

Yes..Diablo 2 were very successful game even without respec..but lack of respec wasn't really aspect why people were playing Diablo 2 for years.

It's impossible to make everyone happy. GGG knows this. They also know that they're probably not going to have a multi-million-dollar success in their very first game. They're looking to make some profit, but it's unreasonable to think this game will succeed exceptionally (monetarily) compared to similar, non-F2P games made by long-standing, larger dev studios. Putting this game as direct competition to D3 isn't a fair comparison mainly due to development budget and fan base.

In the end, GGG is going to make the game that they want... That's why they started their studio and this game in the first place. They set out to make a game that they and other gamers like them would enjoy. They don't seem like the type who will throw away any of their core ideas just to appease a few more players -- those who absolutely refuse to play without X or Y. Those will be the people who just aren't going to be happy with this game, and must be considered acceptable losses.

Saying that the lack of respecs is a serious design flaw is just an opinion. There are many other players who think having that feature would be a flaw. No amount of statistics can turn an opinion into a fact, especially when the statistics aren't even real. Saying that most players want something doesn't make it any more true than me saying most players don't want it, because neither of us can prove it. So, I refer back to my previous statement that GGG will make the game how they want it.

"

Kabraxis wrote:

"

WhiteBoy88 wrote:

"

Kabraxis wrote:

And as conslusion to this discussion (form my side) i will give D2 example.

D2LOD, the best aRPG in history dont offer respecs at all for 9 years or something.... but now we have (as forst post mentions) 2012, reality has changed and now D2LOD offers three full respecs per char.

Don't ignore the fact that D2 managed to keep many thousands of players for 10 years without respecs, and still would have kept many thousands if they never added respecs.

Blizzard didn't add respecs because times have changed. They added them because it didn't change their game much at all. The game has inherent flaws that allow you to skip most of the game and grind levels very quickly. A rebuild up to 85 takes just a few hours; it can easily be done in a day. Respecing a few times in D2 isn't saving a whole lot of the player's time, and Blizzard recognized this.

The quick-grind methods of D2 are being designed against in PoE. They were major design flaws, and GGG has learned from Blizzard's mistakes in that area. PoE's system encourages you to play the content, not skip most of it like D2's. Since it takes longer to level up in PoE (comparing levels linearly), having free respecs in favor of rebuilding saves the player a lot more time.

Diablo 2 managed to keep many thousands of players for 10 years without respecs because they have no competition at all. PoE will have VERY STRONG competition - D3 and Torchlight 2 in 2012 alone, then Grim Dawn and new Lineage HnS in 2013. im preety sure that all of these games will have full respecs.

Rest of your post is bullshit so sorry but i will not refer to it.

Another message to GGG - its not good to cater to 1999 dessign philosophy IN EVERYTHING to please minority of players. And not having respecs is not "hardcore", its simply old and stinky design.


"I don't take anything Blizzard says as truth until proven, especially when dealing with their points of view. "

So i strongly recommend doind the same with anythin that you or GGG says.
Honestly after this statement i dont even consider you as a serious disscutant. "i know better" lolz.
No offense but if more Alpha players are like you is not suprising that PoE has so much design flaws and decisions warped back from 1990 and punishing players in "hardcore' way (RNG crafting that gives you everything besides fun and sense of accomplishment and reward for example).

When i read topics like this i must admit that some ppl forgot that games are made to deliver:

1. fun and enjoyment for players (not second work - not in 2012)
2. cash for developers

many of responds in this threads dont take both of above into any consideration.

Your argument works both ways. You say they should have respecs because PoE will have a lot of competition with respecs available and not having them will drive players towards this competition.

I say the only way to survive with so much competition is to offer things that the competition does not have, like unique characters with unique specs instead of everyone using the same fotm spec.

Games like diablo 3 have a lot more recources and money available than PoE, the reason people will choose PoE over D3 is because PoE keeps the good parts of D2 without stuff like full respecs.

If PoE would copy D3 and add things like cheap full respecs to cater to casuals who can't accept that their first char won't instantly be perfect in every way, how do you think they will beat a game with infinitely more recourses and keep people from switching over to D3?

You don't beat your competition by copying every single thing they do.