Power Creep and an opportunity for change (rework eternals and mirrors).

Well, tell me how many eternals are available in the market, and how many exalts.

(or at least tell me an algorithm)

All I know is that there are web sites with ratios...and that's it. They could be biased because of the bubble.

I'm no economy expert anyway, :P

There is a difference between "cannot get an exact count" and "cannot study." In almost all surveys of large numbers of people, a reliable estimation based on a sample is used, rather than an exact counting.

Even then, it might be possible to count the Eternals in existence. I mean, I couldn't, but maybe GGG could. For all I know, they already might.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

There is a difference between "cannot get an exact count" and "cannot study." In almost all surveys of large numbers of people, a reliable estimation based on a sample is used, rather than an exact counting.

Even then, it might be possible to count the Eternals in existence. I mean, I couldn't, but maybe GGG could. For all I know, they already might.

But I doubt players, and that was my point. It may be possible, but I don't think players would do it.

Anyway, enough off topic.

So Nero you still think eternals\mirrors has a large impact on item devaluation?

If so one could argue that masters do the same thing, arguably worst.


If not, your thread is practically resolved. Mirrors+eternals aren't the issue, the other thing to keep in mind is I dont see a single temp league player complaining about them, only "underleveled" standard players, no offense.

"

goetzjam wrote:

So Nero you still think eternals\mirrors has a large impact on item devaluation?

If so one could argue that masters do the same thing, arguably worst.


If not, your thread is practically resolved. Mirrors+eternals aren't the issue, the other thing to keep in mind is I dont see a single temp league player complaining about them, only "underleveled" standard players, no offense.

I won't oppose power creep if it has some value to add to the game (for self found people it has a lot of value). The new item tiers are not worth pissing off so many people, that's the reason I've made this thread, to make something actually useful with their pressence. Alone, they don't bring anything interesting.

Also, again the "underleveled/envy" card when the threads I linked were full of people that can actually make those mirror tier items. Ad hominems won't help you this time.

Hell, Ventor is saying the same in the State of the beta thread.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1288610/page/7#p10782432

"

NeroNoah wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

So Nero you still think eternals\mirrors has a large impact on item devaluation?

If so one could argue that masters do the same thing, arguably worst.


If not, your thread is practically resolved. Mirrors+eternals aren't the issue, the other thing to keep in mind is I dont see a single temp league player complaining about them, only "underleveled" standard players, no offense.

I won't oppose power creep if it has some value to add to the game (for self found people it has a lot of value). The new item tiers are not worth pissing off so many people, that's the reason I've made this thread, to make something actually useful with their pressence. Alone, they don't bring anything interesting.

Also, again the "underleveled/envy" card when the threads I linked were full of people that can actually make those mirror tier items. Ad hominems won't help you this time.

Hell, Ventor is saying the same in the State of the beta thread.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1288610/page/7#p10782432

So you are going to use 1 person that is wealthy as the argument against my claim that only underleveled standard players seem to be having an issue with mirrors\eternals? The statements main focus was on the point that temp league players quite frankly don't give a fuck as their economy is always better then standards.

You and others want standard to be something it cannot possibly be, which is a fresh and interesting economy. What it is, is a dumpster ground for hardcore deaths, temp league players and abandon characters and ideas.

This whole idea that the economy of standard is FUCKED or bad because if mirrors and eternals is stupid, if anything hardcore and more importantly temp leagues have shown is that standard is not fucked because of them, but saturation of gear.

I don't know why you are posting on a topic which you are so far away from being involved in. Like I said before unless a mirror drops for you, you won't reach a point anytime soon where mirror(s) can affect you.

Lot of the changes in beta are pissing people off, who the fuck cares, give your feedback and move on. I know I will post a long and detailed feedback of the things I dislike about it, will GGG change any of them, probably not, but at least I would voice my opinion.

The power creep things is just silly, how can a player that hasn't reached endgame content be complaining about power creep? Do you understand they are increasing the levels of maps, therefore providing more difficult challenges after they add these new tiers?

People that have the mirrored items now should be excited they will eventually have something to work up to again. We don't have the exact numbers, but I suspect the mods are no better then 10-15% better then what we currently have, if its significantly higher then that I might see the point of complaining, but if you are 1 shotting monsters it doesn't really matter if your tooltip DPS is higher, now does it?


I can appreciate a player trying to give feedback, but honestly your playtime is equiv to what lots of people can do in less then a week, so why should GGG or anyone for that matter take your views on the economy in standard, itemzation, ect when you haven't completed a single endgame character? This is not meant to be a personal attack, this is meant to be a discussion point in itself.

I like you participating, I am just confused on why you think you are so right, when it seems like you couldn't have formed the opinions you have yourself.

Two things:

-I've made my opinion after reading this lots of times. I mean loooooooots of times. It's not one person, don't fool yourself.

-You attacked again about who I am as a player, that's worthless.

It's futile to talk to you. It's ok, have your opinion, I have mine.

"

-I've made my opinion after reading this lots of times. I mean loooooooots of times. It's not one person, don't fool yourself.

Reading, not playing or experiencing, but reading.

"

-You attacked again about who I am as a player, that's worthless.

I am making a point about how you can't possibly have came up with your opinion from experience. That is really important when you are giving FEEDBACK.

"

It's futile to talk to you. It's ok, have your opinion, I have mine.

You took my comments personally, don't. But my opinion is based off of playing, learning, interacting, reading, watching, ect. Yours is based off of whatever reading you've done, see the difference?

You don't need my experience. Try to question the other people that have shown support to the idea the same way if you can (Ventor, Beefnuggy, Scrotie (so so), rrtson, etc.).

You attack my inexperience because it's easy. But I don't think it really matters, else I wouldn't have made this thread.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

You don't need my experience. Try to question the other people that have shown support to the idea the same way if you can (Ventor, Beefnuggy, Scrotie (so so), rrtson, etc.).

You attack my inexperience because it's easy. But I don't think it really matters, else I wouldn't have made this thread.

There are a lot of people against what you are suggesting as well, ones that actually have you know "played" the game rather then making long forum post about topics they aren't anywhere near "qualified" to speak on.

Removing any currency isn't an option at this point, if anything they could stop them from dropping going forward and just "hurt" your progression in standard further. They can't delete the stockpiles or change the way currency works just because you or whoever feed you the idea think they can. That isn't how it works.

A mirror as I said in the first reply is an iconic symbol of PoE, it will never go anywhere. A while ago people actually had spines when doing crafting and limited the copies to 10-15 or whatever small amount, unlike the what 50+, 100+ of loath bane?


My position and others are clear on this, your issue is an economic issue and you are blaming something you will (probably) never have experience with.

If mirrors\eternals are an issue for gear devaluation and need removed and adjusted, them master mods need removed FIRST.


But just like every economic issue people blame the wrong things, in this thread mirrors\eternals are blamed for inflation of gear and masters. In the trade thread people blame lack of an AH or easy way to trade for the fact they can't sell 1-5 chaos items to players that are already fully geared.


It always has to be something other then the player though right or the perception that is without any actual experience.