Power Creep and an opportunity for change (rework eternals and mirrors).

"

goetzjam wrote:

My position and others are clear on this, your issue is an economic issue and you are blaming something you will (probably) never have experience with.

You missed the point of this thread.

Whatever, I'll put my profile in private from now, just to avoid derailers in future threads.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

My position and others are clear on this, your issue is an economic issue and you are blaming something you will (probably) never have experience with.

You missed the point of this thread.

Whatever, I'll put my profile in private from now, just to avoid derailers in future threads.

The point if the thread is GGG won't remove mirrors or eternals and they cannot change how orbs work retroactively, how stupid of an idea to actually suggest they could\should.

Cannot, or do not want to, goetz?

Besides, even if you think it's a stupid idea - Nero doesn't.
In fact, the length of this thread means it is important to him.
Respect that, even if you disagree.

"

johnKeys wrote:

Cannot, or do not want to, goetz?

Besides, even if you think it's a stupid idea - Nero doesn't.
In fact, the length of this thread means it is important to him.
Respect that, even if you disagree.

Similar to legacy items you cannot change the property of something post drop. Its a loot game, part of the whole design of the game is these orbs as currency\loot. I understand the main reason for legacy items are\were technical downtime, similarly orbs have similar properties in the fact that they were and are designed for a specific purpose.

Its important to him why? He has yet to explain the foundation to how it affects him as a player, that is the whole basis of feedback is how this or that affects you.

The only thing I respect is his resilience to changing his position. I cannot respect a player that just takes ideas and thoughts from other players and adapts them like they are his own, that isn't feedback or at least it isn't the idea of experienced based feedback, which should be much more valuable then some player reading up on and adapting those ideas as their own.


The changes GGG is doing to this game and changes players that haven't even reached endgame are doing\suggesting is literally killing the game I love. Fucking stop it please.

"

goetzjam wrote:

The changes GGG is doing to this game and changes players that haven't even reached endgame are doing\suggesting is literally killing the game I love. Fucking stop it please.

While I'm not unsympathetic to your position, you know that's not fair.

I've spent too much time listening to unsupported claims that GGG is being maliciously capricious to extend the shelf life of their game, pandering to the core gamers or "streamers," etecetera, etcetera.

Please don't start down that path as well.

If the topic is "what causes the devaluation of gear," it's not mirrors or Eternals or master crafting. It is farming. Inflation caused by continual farming without sinks to compensate is such a well-known issue that I'm shocked no one has mentioned it yet.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

If the topic is "what causes the devaluation of gear," it's not mirrors or Eternals or master crafting. It is farming. Inflation caused by continual farming without sinks to compensate. is such a well-known issue that I'm shocked no one has mentioned it yet.

That was mentioned, but the whole point of this thread is that it's better to have people searching for the perfect rare through looting rather that just save for the mirror item. Not an economical issue (although it matters), just a psychological one. I think the first one is better for a loot game.

Maybe, but the noise people are making over psychology annoys me all the same.
Is there a way we can implement a change to mirrors that makes nobody happy?
I'm in favor of that.

@goetzjam,

personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Eternals and Mirrors gone.
they make RMT Lords smile, and I'd like to wipe that smile off their faces.
but if they are being rid of, there should be a replacement of actual crafting materials. stuff you earn by killing the appropriate tough shit, and being good at it - then actually use to improve the gear and properties of your character.
crafting. looting. earning. not BS casino chips with a casino drop rate, which have a billion casino outcomes, meaning you're better off just Wraeclast Dollaring them up to another player or your local Master/Vendor.

that's my opinion.
I didn't "steal" it from anyone, even if it happens to match someone else's.
and if someone who actually dropped Eternals, Mirrors, and hoarded stacks of Exalts and whatnot because he's a Goetz-certified "end-game" player, comes in and writes the exact same thing I did - it doesn't make his opinion more "valuable" than mine.

killing the game you love? honestly man, I've seen a fair share of stuff GGG did, which "killed the game I love", then resurrected it as a spectre, then killed it again.
and I'm still coming back for more.

GGG are here to make decisions. a whole lot of bad ones in my opinion, but decisions nonetheless.
and we are all here to comment, advise, and let them know what we think about this game we like.

"

NeroNoah wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

If the topic is "what causes the devaluation of gear," it's not mirrors or Eternals or master crafting. It is farming. Inflation caused by continual farming without sinks to compensate. is such a well-known issue that I'm shocked no one has mentioned it yet.

That was mentioned, but the whole point of this thread is that it's better to have people searching for the perfect rare through looting rather that just save for the mirror item.

Is it?

I believe the currency design for Alchs, Chaos, Regals and Exalts is pretty close to perfect, with the sole (but signficant) exception of granularity. If by "save up" you mean using orbs for crafting, then I disagree with you, because I believe the appropriate function for currency is to simulate additional (random) loot drops within a particular, narrowed focus. Which means: "saving up" currency should be capable of the same outcomes as trying to loot the desired item directly, otherwise it isn't really simulating additional drops.

If by "save up" you mean hoard currency/items for trade and acquire it that way, then my earlier criticism regarding Mirrors applies. However, outside of that, the purpose of trade is as a "catch-up" mechanic wherein those at the top of a ladder are incentivized to gear those below them with hand-me-downs, in exchange for currency which allows them a chance to craft not-yet-existent items. Since the impact of the hand-me-downs is normally far greater than the impact of the currency, this system helps keep gaps between top and bottom on the ladder tight and more competitive. (Admittedly, this function is somewhat corrupted in permanent leagues where ladders are irrelevant in terms of competition.)

So with the caveat that Mirrors do feel kind of wonky, the premise you're basing everything around couldn't really be labeled as true.

"

johnKeys wrote:

personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Eternals and Mirrors gone.
they make RMT Lords smile, and I'd like to wipe that smile off their faces.
but if they are being rid of, there should be a replacement of actual crafting materials. stuff you earn by killing the appropriate tough shit, and being good at it - then actually use to improve the gear and properties of your character.
crafting. looting. earning. not BS casino chips with a casino drop rate, which have a billion casino outcomes, meaning you're better off just Wraeclast Dollaring them up to another player or your local Master/Vendor.

Out of all of the currencies in the entire game, you chose two of literally only four non-random currencies (the other two are Scouring and Regret, both of which have essentially no item impact these days) and you singled them out as that which make the "RMT lords smile." Yet you think what we need is more in the way of non-random currency in order to make the game better for you?

You crucify RNG, but it's just a scapegoat. Your key error here is the same as Courageous when he first dreamt up the Eternal Orb - that the orbs you envision in your head would be used as intended. Of course, that's hopelessly naive; as I pointed out earlier, market forces will always direct orbs within the market to their single most OP application. Those non-RNG orbs would just end up becoming the next Eternal. Why? Because random bad stuff happening to your items doesn't rank at all with the loss of random bad stuff happening to the best items in the game, so all those orbs are going to float, like Etenals, to the best items which could possibly utilize them.

In other words, your suggestion is: "Let's get rid of Eternals and Mirrors, because they make the RMT Lords smile, then let's add some additional orbs which would make the RMT Lords smile."