Power Creep and an opportunity for change (rework eternals and mirrors).

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NeroNoah wrote:

It's not mirrors per se, it's the feeling that beyond some point the only upgrade will be a mirror gear, or that once you got that item, there are not upgrades. Ideally, you want to make almost impossible to get a perfect item for a slot. That adds replayability to the game (theoretically), because people would identify in the search of that elusive good item.

GGG is buffing rares, so I expect less unique usage, solving the BIS problem partially. We'll see how it goes. Also, you can't use only uniques, with few exceptions anyway.

If you can't see that, well, I have nothing else to say. Let's agree to disagree.

Fun fact: there was another thread discussing that Kaom's Heart is not really worth to use.

Theres not much you can do about the feeling of diminishing returns. That's an end game problem that can't be addressed. There is a top, whether you make it yourself, or someone else sells it to you.

You are correct that you can't really use only uniques in a build, but those are the most upgradable pieces you have. If you really need a piece of armor with certain stats on it, chances are it's available as a unique.

Fun fact: I know about that thread and argued strictly against them. I think Kaom's right now is awesome, but if they want to give me more life who am I to say no? The only problem it has is that it doesn't appeal to everybody. But why should it? Funny thing is, if they do boost Kaom's the way the other folks were suggesting we're going to end up with Kaom's that have 40% fire and 1k life on them because people will use divine orbs to reroll them -- because divine orbs do not add or remove stats only reroll them. Making the current Kaom's worth a fortune, legacy Kaom's worth nothing, and the new Kaom's will still be worth nothing.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

Theres not much you can do about the feeling of diminishing returns. That's an end game problem that can't be addressed. There is a top, whether you make it yourself, or someone else sells it to you.

There is a big difference between diminishing returns and no returns beyond some point (current situation). Now it's just worse than any other aRPG.

The only way there would be returns if there is always something better. Mirrors cannot do anything about that for or against, because it is a limitation of the system. I mean heck, you can get a perfectly rolled unique in this game or any other, and the unique doesn't get any better. While I think it'd be amusing if there was always something better, sad thing is the game only scales so far. The new tiers should please you as well as the new mods. But they'll eventually be mirrors too.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

The only way there would be returns if there is always something better. Mirrors cannot do anything about that for or against, because it is a limitation of the system. I mean heck, you can get a perfectly rolled unique in this game or any other, and the unique doesn't get any better. While I think it'd be amusing if there was always something better, sad thing is the game only scales so far. The new tiers should please you as well as the new mods. But they'll eventually be mirrors too.

I'll repeat it a last time: it will likely that rares become more used with the new affixes.

Also, the whole point of this thread is to limit the power of eternals and mirrors to avoid that. Not just a random attack on mirrors. It should take a lot (months to years?) more time to get perfect gear.

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NeroNoah wrote:

I'll repeat it a last time: it will likely that rares become more used with the new affixes.

The new affixes and new bases will make sure things are used, yes, but they will become mirrors too.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Also, the whole point of this thread is to limit the power of eternals and mirrors to avoid that. Not just a random attack on mirrors. It should take a lot (months to years?) more time to get perfect gear.

No, it is a random attack on mirrors, you're attacking the mechanic at its source, and the best you have come up with is "I don't like there to be a top". I've played since the open beta and I still can't afford a mirror if I wanted to. What makes you think that it's easy, or quick? It's a whole lot of luck (dropping or making it yourself), pooling wealth and taking over the trade market(getting more currency out than you put in), or a whole lot of time investment (Treating PoE like a job). Literally, only the top of the top get that stuff. You're making it sound as a problem for the average player when it is not.

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ghoulavenger wrote:

No, it is a random attack on mirrors, you're attacking the mechanic at its source, and the best you have come up with is "I don't like there to be a top". I've played since the open beta and I still can't afford a mirror if I wanted to. What makes you think that it's easy, or quick? It's a whole lot of luck (dropping or making it yourself), pooling wealth and taking over the trade market(getting more currency out than you put in), or a whole lot of time investment (Treating PoE like a job). Literally, only the top of the top get that stuff. You're making it sound as a problem for the average player when it is not.

Technically the mirror plus eternal combination has made the rest of the gear cheaper (economic magic, it's well documented), and also, the effort is not comparable to actually looting it, even if it's hard as fuck.

But meh. I can't convince you. It's ok. Again, I have no stakes on this.

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NeroNoah wrote:

Technically the mirror plus eternal combination has made the rest of the gear cheaper (economic magic, it's well documented), and also, the effort is not comparable to actually looting it, even if it's hard as fuck.

But meh. I can't convince you. It's ok. Again, I have no stakes on this.

While I believe mirroring has some effect on the economy, perhaps negatively like you're suggesting here. The problem is not the mirrored items. The cause once again, is the proliferation of items. If everybody has a tyrranical sword, nobody wants to buy a tyrranical sword, so the price on a tyrranical sword drops. It's a supply versus demand situation.

There is no way you can convince me that any documentation proves the contrary. That is in fact the mirrors that are causing the tyrranical sword to be worthless. When the tyrranical sword is clearly useful as a crafting item, and probably cheaper to buy than to roll, for all your crafting needs. Maybe thats where the mirrors come out: if you find a tyrranical sword now, you can't sell it to a crafter for as much because the crafter's already done making his tyrranical weapon and out of the market. As opposed to the crafter ruining his old tyrranical sword and needing a new one.

I feel Eternals are much more of a clear "shouldn't be in the game" than Mirrors. Should be: Eternal Orb no longer drops, Scouring changed to remove one random affix instead of all at once.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I feel Eternals are much more of a clear "shouldn't be in the game" than Mirrors. Should be: Eternal Orb no longer drops, Scouring changed to remove one random affix instead of all at once.

Thing is that if for some reason someone loots a perfect item this will end the same. It's a lot less likely but I rather avoid it. I'd prefer to limit mirror influence for those situations, and I don't really know what would be the best for Eternals (limiting the number of uses so people use it as intended?). It doesn't feel good to outright remove things.

I want to see them gone because I miss the days of being amazed when a mid-high level rare dropped or was yolo crafted with exalts. The excitement of seeing a powerful item disappeared completely the day it became possible to eternal if the first exalt didn't work out.

Even 6xT1 items bore me because in my mind I know it wasn't mysterious luck that forged it but just hours of trading and eternal-exalting.