Save up forever for a crown of eyes. Get shit all over.

"

Veruski wrote:

"

sidtherat wrote:

logic/stuff

while you are right about the technical aspects here, there's other problems.

you're basically assuming GGG is being honest about their reasons, rather than just making up excuses for what they have done.

it's quite likely that, for example, legacy items were created to enrich their friends and core elements of their playerbase.

this would make them happy, no? more likely to stick with PoE and tell their friends to play. and if they are already the kind of player who logs thousands of hours, all the better...lol.

the developers of games enriching their friends and fans in the virtual worlds they create has a long LONG tradition dating back to MUDs.

...it's especially common with smaller companies...

Well they basically use the same technique D2 used, you could do the same there (although it was hard to actually change the way mods worked.

But if you change the way a mod works of course the entire unique changes and to keep the old one would mean that you need to create a legacy mod, which isn't really necessary, because you want to get rid of those uniques in the first place.

Legacies are just there because the value of a mod (if it has one) is stored with the item. If an Item has 190% increased Physical Damage the 190% is stored on the item, what the mod increased physical damage does however isn't. So if they just change the value of a unique, they would have to forcefully reroll all these mods. This could mean that players having a perfectly rolled item would get a really bad one, because it rolls low in the new spectrum or they set the value of all legacy uniques to the new max, which would mean that people with a really bad item would get a perfect item.

The only fair way would be catching all the legacy values, calculating how "perfect" they are and transform them. If you could 75% of the old max-value you get 75% of the new max-value.

But if there is a change to the core mechanic of an item there never was a legacy, and although this is not an advantage for Alpha-Players it is one for players who have seen this happening before, although it did happen fairly recently with Vertex where a mistake in how the mod works was fixed to prevent it applying to auras or the change they made to Volls, it isn't the first time this happens.

It was always
Changing Numeric Values -> Legacy
Changing how mods work -> no Legacy

The other item that might not get a legacy is Mjölnir if they add an internal CD to the Mod, which seems reasonable considering that they did the same with CoC.

"

Emphasy wrote:

Changing Numeric Values -> Legacy
Changing how mods work -> no Legacy

sure, but this choice is arbitrary. you can accomplish mostly the same thing with any item going either route.

thus, the main choice is really, do i want to create a legacy version, or not?

then there's the next logical question: if GGG knows it's going to nerf something, and knows how it's going to nerf it, why wouldn't it be the policy to publicly announce this the second they know it, to put everybody on equal footing?

instead, the norm is that a small subset of players knows in advance. thus, it seems to be a tool used to manipulate the wealth of certain players.

CoE is literally the first item I think we were all publicly notified of being changed in advance, and even then it less than 10 days notice. lol. which means some people knew much earlier.

definitely this would be true for prior items. so what's the motive? there is NO downside to letting everybody know these things as they are decided. the only possible "downside" would be the removal of the insider advantage....

This nerf was needed and a long time coming. I'm just glad they didn't create a legacy version... the last thing this game needs is more legacy uniques.

This is just a slight DPS nerf to builds that are already OP as hell. Not worth crying about.

how was crown of eyes nerfed? srry i didnt noticed about it

"

Veruski wrote:

"

Emphasy wrote:

Changing Numeric Values -> Legacy
Changing how mods work -> no Legacy

sure, but this choice is arbitrary. you can accomplish mostly the same thing with any item going either route.

thus, the main choice is really, do i want to create a legacy version, or not?

then there's the next logical question: if GGG knows it's going to nerf something, and knows how it's going to nerf it, why wouldn't it be the policy to publicly announce this the second they know it, to put everybody on equal footing?

instead, the norm is that a small subset of players knows in advance. thus, it seems to be a tool used to manipulate the wealth of certain players.

CoE is literally the first item I think we were all publicly notified of being changed in advance, and even then it less than 10 days notice. lol. which means some people knew much earlier.

definitely this would be true for prior items. so what's the motive? there is NO downside to letting everybody know these things as they are decided. the only possible "downside" would be the removal of the insider advantage....

You assume that they care about whether or not some people get information in advance. What makes you think they care? Why should they care?

"

Veruski wrote:

"

dandan88 wrote:

As usual, no one actually listening to what Mark said and instead making their own fantasy ideas of how the game works and how they change items. He explained everything there and people are still like "I don't buy it".... are you really that fucking dense?

more like: are you really so dense to believe that there isn't more than one way to skin a cat?

you could balance CoE by changing it numerically rather than mechanically.

kaoms could have been balanced by changing it mechanically rather than numerically.

etc.

the choice either way seems to be somewhat arbitrary.

then there's the quite obvious fact that GGG has a history of either never giving advance notice to the public at large for these changes, or very little notice. then there'es the fact that some people DO have advance notice, and are set to profit vastly from it.

soooo hmmm. what are we to conclude?

Yeah. Change CoE numerically. Silly little mod, that 'converts spelldamage to physical' thingy. Let's instead nerf the ES on the item, that should do the trick. ES is important!! Or, hey, we could, like put a 'converts 70% of spelldamage to physical' so we can have an excuse to create legacy versions of the same item because creating legacy versions is a goal of ours and not a byproduct of the way the system is designed. Because that'd make sense.

Also, about Kaom's Heart mechanical changes. The legacy version was '+1000 hp', 'no sockets'. Lots of wiggle room to make mechanical changes on that item, yep. Just change the way hp or sockets work and you're done! WTF GGG.

/deargod

"

mazul wrote:

You assume that they care about whether or not some people get information in advance. What makes you think they care? Why should they care?

because it has many economic implications, and preserving a good/strong economy is a goal that they often emphasize.

not caring is basically an admission that you do care, as there is no downside to letting everybody know.

it's one of those situations where inaction is a form of action.

"

elvy wrote:

The legacy version was '+1000 hp', 'no sockets'. Lots of wiggle room to make mechanical changes on that item

you must be very new here. the original mechanical change for kaoms was to LITERALLY change the ENTIRE skill tree around the fact that people might be wearing kaoms.

regarding your argument in particular: you could just add nerfing mods to items, too. eg, add another modifier to kaoms "15% less life" or whatever. Same with CoE. "100% reduced spell damage" whatever.

i don't disagreee that creating legacy items is bad.

i disagree with how GGG screws around with items and doesn't notify everybody at the same time.

"

Chris wrote:

Powerful legacy items are a feature of the permanent leagues.

Make up your minds because this back and forth BS is pissing people off. You make items legacy and say its a feature and now your nerf shit because jealous player are crying for months on the forums. You still have legacy items in the game so guess what, jealous players will never stop crying. So now all you have accomplished is to piss off the jealous players along with the people who have the items. Can we get some kind of real stance from GGG other than we do whatever people on the forums cry about the most.

"

Midnitecloud wrote:

"

Chris wrote:

Powerful legacy items are a feature of the permanent leagues.

Make up your minds because this back and forth BS is pissing people off. You make items legacy and say its a feature and now your nerf shit because jealous player are crying for months on the forums. You still have legacy items in the game so guess what, jealous players will never stop crying. So now all you have accomplished is to piss off the jealous players along with the people who have the items. Can we get some kind of real stance from GGG other than we do whatever people on the forums cry about the most.

Mark from GGG wrote more than one post in that very thread already.

And they didn't change the mechanic vs. not changing the numeric value of a mod to prevent an other legacy jelly QQ wave, they did it because it was the better way to nerf CoE. They did it for other items in the past.

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

"

ampdecay wrote:

"

Mark_GGG wrote:

...

If I understand correctly the CoE change is different in the fact that it doesnt change the values of the items, it chanes the mod that the values point to?

They still have the same mod, we've changed the game mechanic that mod turns on.

Couldn't you just have changed how a mod >200 life works? :_
Instead of 1000 life it just adds 500 life and there aren't any legacy Kaoms anymore.
And some text such as "Life efficiency"