Snapshotting

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Fruz wrote:

With 5 zombies instead of one, you have 500% of the dps you had when you had only one .... ( from those zombies of course ), but the benefit from the support gems ... is always 100%, whatever the number of zombies.
The only thing that can really be multiplied, is the global effective life, dps and mobility of the pets.

I suggest that you take math classes ( not even sure that it will help here ) so that you can get logic basics, because it really looks like that it's what you're missing here.

Each post of yours just confirm my previous one lol.

this, coming from the one that thinks the support gems = the skill gem that we're talking about?

hahahahaha. oooooops!

i never mentioned any percentage of support gems, i pointed out that 1 spectre out of 5 is 20% of the spectres. 20% of the skill's ability.

jesus. perhaps instead of repeatedly bringing up logic/math in a most questionable manner (5/5 will never be 500%), you should brush up on your reading comprehension - because i'm not talking about percentage of support gems.

It's because you mentioned something completely irrelevant, without the correct words, that people applied it to something that would actually be relevant to the conversation.

The benefits of snapshotting here is about the number of potential support for spectres .... who cares if using only one zombie is loosing in efficiency because the spell can do more ?
Noone, and noone does that with a dedicated summoner.

You are probably one of the worst guys that could bring up "reading comprehension" as an argument I guess there lol.

...what in the hell are you talking about?

you screwed up, and you're blaming me for it? hahahaha. good one. tell me more about logic.

Right ... I screwed up .... lawl.

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robmafia wrote:

this, coming from the one that thinks allocating 16-30 passive points is only a 'minor' cost... and who thinks that losing GG boots to wear a 30 ES, 0 res, 15% ms boot is only a tiny drawback?

the added irony is that if you actually believed this, it's only incentive for EVERY character to run 3 spectres. clearly, that's not the case.

lol, okay, I'll keep biting here. 30 points is, at most, 25% of the max you can allocate by level 100 (if you kill every bandit, that is). Furthermore, why is allocating passive points a big deal? You have to anyway to advance in the game! Tell me of one build that does not have t invest in something in the passive tree and can still make it to the end of the game. (hint: you can't)
If you're a crit build, you invest in crit, if you are a fire build, you invest in fire, if you are a summoner, you ...(wait for it)... invest in minions!! Makes total sense, right? Of course it does, because that's how these things work.
PS: The second part there at the end... I'm not sure I follow (same with your "waaaa!" paragraph a few posts before. It was like you were using all of your own points to make fun of yourself or something).

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robmafia wrote:

HOLY BACKPEDALING.

acceptable loss =/= "MINIMAL," your exact word.

HOLY- wait, what? Yes, I said both minimal and acceptable loss... but in regards to two different things. Minimal investment to get more spectres. If you're a summoner, you're already going to be grabbing minion nodes and the boots are a single piece of equipment. That leaves nine other slots for godly gear if you so choose. You took that statement as everything being minimal, but I did not say that anywhere. Acceptable loss for the trade off of the minion-providing boots at the cost of great stats.

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robmafia wrote:

lolwut? the two aren't even related! one is a CHOICE of gear. the other is being forced upon us by nerfing the mechanics to punish anyone who wants to run different spectres.

lolwut indeed. You are arguing for an unintended mechanic that is going away (no ifs, ands or buts about it). You can still run as many different spectres as you want as well... each will just have to have its own set of gems and take up a different cluster of slots. Will anyone do that? Nope. That does not mean it is not an option though. Summoner are not being singled out or purposefully punished here.

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robmafia wrote:

MINIMAL WAS YOUR EXACT WORD! you said "With minimal investment"

Again, I never said everything would be minimal.

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robmafia wrote:

this is literally the OPPOSITE of your previous posts - you JUST argued that there ISN'T enough of a trade off and that the trade off is "minimal!"

you can't even follow your own argument!

I will raise you an "lolwut" here because this doesn't even make sense.
When did I say there isn't enough of a trade off? And again with the minimal? You are just throwing it around willy nilly now. I never said anything about the trade off being minimal, that was the acceptable loss bit. The boots have the least impactful negative (in that, aside from the low stats that we already went over, they do not reserve life, take up more than one slot, reduce the amount of minions you can have out or reduce the life of your minions) and quite the whopping positive (+1 spectre, +1 zombie). I think it might be you who cannot follow my (logical) argument.

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Fruz wrote:

Right ... I screwed up .... lawl.

yes, you thought that "skill" meant "support."

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robmafia wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

Right ... I screwed up .... lawl.

yes, you thought that "skill" meant "support."

Time for memes I guess

I'm out, good luck for everyone on talking to this guy.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

lol, okay, I'll keep biting here. 30 points is, at most, 25% of the max you can allocate by level 100

exactly. it's not "minimal." it's substantial.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

HOLY- wait, what? Yes, I said both minimal and acceptable loss... but in regards to two different things. Minimal investment to get more spectres.

...that's the same thing. not 2 different things. regardless, you referred to both ullrs and passive allocation as "minimal investment," while arguing that it's not enough of a trade-off.

the players clearly disagree, as evident by the lack of spectres being used by non-summoners.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

If you're a summoner, you're already going to be grabbing minion nodes and the boots are a single piece of equipment. That leaves nine other slots for godly gear if you so choose. You took that statement as everything being minimal, but I did not say that anywhere. Acceptable loss for the trade off of the minion-providing boots at the cost of great stats.

this is backpedaling GREATLY from your initial argument... into arguing exactly my point - that it IS a trade-off.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

lolwut indeed. You are arguing for an unintended mechanic that is going away (no ifs, ands or buts about it)

i'm not so sure it's unintended - it was in diablo 2, the admitted model/motivation for this game.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

You can still run as many different spectres as you want as well... each will just have to have its own set of gems and take up a different cluster of slots. Will anyone do that? Nope. That does not mean it is not an option though. Summoner are not being singled out or purposefully punished here.

huh? it does mean it's not an option if it's completely not viable. it may TECHNICALLY be an option (as is using nothing but portal gems), but it's not really an option. and everyone but GGG seems to know this.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

Again, I never said everything would be minimal.

...what? what do you mean "everything?" you said bones of ullr and allocating passives for +1 spectre is minimal. and those were the only 2 related points... so yes, you DID say that "everything" is minimal.

you clearly forgot your own argument.

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GoatEatingToilet wrote:

I will raise you an "lolwut" here because this doesn't even make sense.
When did I say there isn't enough of a trade off? And again with the minimal?

see page 43. put your face in your palm. YOU said minimal. YOU argued that it's not enough of a trade-off. hence, my reply and the hilarious backpedaling you've done since.

you're now literally arguing THE OPPOSITE of your initial claims.

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Leunam3 wrote:

i also cant see many nice ES pieces for a summoner! - sometimes the drawback is rly high - or lets not forget the amu! - yes its nice - it buffs your minions! but not ridicoulusly huge - and still provides no other stats for the summoner himself!

Yes, the boots are on the low stat side, but they also provide stats you will absolutely not find on any rare set of boots. You don't get high life, mana or ES from them, but you get another zombie and spectre that can absorb damage and dish out dps. It is like getting life/mana/es in a different form.

The amulet is for leveling, mainly. It provides a nice little boost to your minions in their early stages (it works so well with raging spirits in early game). Also, it does provide stats for you: Mana regen and cold resist (mana leech too, but only for physical attacks). If you Vaal it you can also get some interesting results (like something that can save you a couple of passive points completely!)


Also, thanks for the name mention! :)

Raises a spectral version of a defeated foe as a minion to fight for you in battle.
Can raise up to 1 Spectre at a time
55% more Minion Movement Speed
Minion Movement Speed is capped
Minions have x% less Life
Minions have x% less Energy Shield
Minions deal x% less Damage

This is what the skill gems says.
Raising 1 spectre out of five is NEVER the 20% of the skills, because 100% of the properties are applied to each spectre, the same way as if i have 4aps with my spectral throw, first attack is not only 25% of the skill.
The skills gem only allows you to raise 1 spectre, and you gain more spectres as you invest in gear or passive nodes, but the skill gem remains as it was. Thus, the first spectre has a 100% of the skill properties applied to it, the same as the second, the third, the fourth and the fifht.
If the skill gem worked as you've been saying (1/5 is only 20%), the skill gem properties would split in 5. That means you would have 5 spectres, each one them with less life, less ES and less damage.