The new portal system is a good compromise

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Dmo90#6022 wrote:

This whole "POE2 needs to stay challenging" sentiment doesn't make any sense to me. There is almost nothing skill based about games like this.

Yep. People who think POE2 is a hard game haven't played other games. Anyone who has played actual hard games comes into these forums and laughs at these forum trolls who think that holding down a single button for several minutes at a time makes for a hard game.

This particular forum troll probably wouldn't be able to get past Morgott in Elden Ring.

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voodoochile78#9787 wrote:

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Dmo90#6022 wrote:

This whole "POE2 needs to stay challenging" sentiment doesn't make any sense to me. There is almost nothing skill based about games like this.

Yep. People who think POE2 is a hard game haven't played other games. Anyone who has played actual hard games comes into these forums and laughs at these forum trolls who think that holding down a single button for several minutes at a time makes for a hard game.

This particular forum troll probably wouldn't be able to get past Morgott in Elden Ring.

I think it might be in part because GGG themselves love to perpetuate that "difficult game" myth, and a lot of people who stake their whole personality on a single game just eat it up.
Even worse: These people have never understood the difference between "challenging", "difficult" and "tedious".

You could almost get the feeling that PoE 2 attracted a lot of people who failed in Soulsborne games and see PoE 2 as "hard enough" (or see enough people complaining about it being "too hard") for them to finally be the people screaming "git gud" from the rooftops.

Everyone not agreeing with them is seen as someone not "skilled enough," as can be seen by the embarrassing "go play LE/D4" cliché they still use... because games have to exist in an ultimate "hard to easy" hierarchy, and the harder the better! Everyone not agreeing with that has no argument and certainly does not want to make the game better, no sir!

That's why I always disliked the whole "difficulty = fun" line of argument. It's just so limiting in what is allowed to provide fun, and every bit of tedious design is praised to high heavens as the pinnacle of game design to the absolute detriment of a game. But as this whole thread is an impressive proof of, some people are not able to grasp anything other than "difficult = gud".

I think the general consensus among veteran players is if someone is dying enough to where they never level up (with the exception of maybe level 94 and above) then their build is just bad and should fix their build to not die as much instead of complain that the XP loss penalty is too punishing. It’s not too punishing it’s your build being terrible if you can’t get above level 82 because you’re dying every map.

And you can have a build that gets you way above level 82 with like 20-50 ex max it doesn’t cost multiple divines to hit level 90.

If the game isn't hard then you shouldn't die.

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hboi#6131 wrote:

If the game isn't hard then you shouldn't die.

Minecraft isn't hard yet you die in that game too.

See, this is what I mean about our forum trolls not playing other games and then not realizing how ridiculous they sound, insisting that the game they play, where they hold down a single button for minutes at a time, is a difficult game. It isn't. You're not a pro gamer and you don't get to look down at anyone else until you've proven yourself with an actually difficult game.

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Malgeo318#2320 wrote:

I think the general consensus among veteran players is if someone is dying enough to where they never level up (with the exception of maybe level 94 and above) then their build is just bad and should fix their build to not die as much instead of complain that the XP loss penalty is too punishing. It’s not too punishing it’s your build being terrible if you can’t get above level 82 because you’re dying every map.

And you can have a build that gets you way above level 82 with like 20-50 ex max it doesn’t cost multiple divines to hit level 90.

You're completely exaggerating how often deaths happen. My lvl 93 Witch hunter can die once every 10 maps and still result in hours of grinding completely lost. Death penalty isn't even that bad for anyone at 85 or lower and in order to even reach that level the build isn't bad enough to where you're dying every map.

So no, if you are stuck in the 80s and not progressing it's not the build or the skill for most people, it's the fact that monster levels don't scale up past the low 80s resulting in minimal XP gain for clearing maps. This means that one little mistake, glitch, or cheese mechanic(off screen spells, spell stacking, on death explosion, insanely high enemy movement speed) can wipe out hours of grinding on a perfectly capable build.

In order to actually lvl up in the 90s, you have to stack XP tablets on several towers in the same area and play extremely cautious while using a boring 1 click AOE meta build. The death penalty completely ruins the fun gameplay that works in campaign and early endgame if you want to actually level up.

It's poor design used to give the illusion of a challenge and it wouldn't even be a huge deal if enemies could actually level up into the 90s

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You're completely exaggerating how often deaths happen. My lvl 93 Witch hunter can die once every 10 maps and still result in hours of grinding completely lost. Death penalty isn't even that bad for anyone at 85 or lower and in order to even reach that level the build isn't bad enough to where you're dying every map.

So no, if you are stuck in the 80s and not progressing it's not the build or the skill for most people, it's the fact that monster levels don't scale up past the low 80s resulting in minimal XP gain for clearing maps. This means that one little mistake, glitch, or cheese mechanic(off screen spells, spell stacking, on death explosion, insanely high enemy movement speed) can wipe out hours of grinding on a perfectly capable build.

In order to actually lvl up in the 90s, you have to stack XP tablets on several towers in the same area and play extremely cautious while using a boring 1 click AOE meta build. The death penalty completely ruins the fun gameplay that works in campaign and early endgame if you want to actually level up.

It's poor design used to give the illusion of a challenge and it wouldn't even be a huge deal if enemies could actually level up into the 90s

So you are exactly the level i talked about where alot of deaths start to not matter any more and missed the point of alot of different people in this post.

Your build without a lot more investment just caps out at 93 because you die in 1/10 maps. That isnt a bad thing, you got to level 93, thats very similar to alot of different players. Hitting level 100 isnt owed to you its a badge of honor for people that put in the time, currency and knowledge of the game to make a really good build that just never dies.

You did great hitting 93. that doesnt mean the XP penalty is too harsh. and your build wont really improve by a substantial amount from 7 more passive points unless you are sitting on 1-2 points away from a bunch of jewel slots.

Lastly i do agree that they could make something where the enemies level up a little more but i think they keep them where they are (86 is max i think) so the last levels are harder to get to 100, they want 100 to be challenging to hit

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So you are exactly the level i talked about where alot of deaths start to not matter any more and missed the point of alot of different people in this post.

Your build without a lot more investment just caps out at 93 because you die in 1/10 maps. That isnt a bad thing, you got to level 93, thats very similar to alot of different players. Hitting level 100 isnt owed to you its a badge of honor for people that put in the time, currency and knowledge of the game to make a really good build that just never dies.

You did great hitting 93. that doesnt mean the XP penalty is too harsh. and your build wont really improve by a substantial amount from 7 more passive points unless you are sitting on 1-2 points away from a bunch of jewel slots.

Lastly i do agree that they could make something where the enemies level up a little more but i think they keep them where they are (86 is max i think) so the last levels are harder to get to 100, they want 100 to be challenging to hit

don't bother, for whatever reason they can't accept the purpose of the game is not hitting lvl 100 :D

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voodoochile78#9787 wrote:

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Dmo90#6022 wrote:

This whole "POE2 needs to stay challenging" sentiment doesn't make any sense to me. There is almost nothing skill based about games like this.

Yep. People who think POE2 is a hard game haven't played other games. Anyone who has played actual hard games comes into these forums and laughs at these forum trolls who think that holding down a single button for several minutes at a time makes for a hard game.

This particular forum troll probably wouldn't be able to get past Morgott in Elden Ring.

Going from 300 hours of PoE2 back to PoE1 for the event reminded me how much harder PoE1 was, it's not even a contest. The only thing that comes close is Simulacrum and Arbiter, but the latter is due to the awful design choices.

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Malgeo318#2320 wrote:

Hitting level 100 isnt owed to you its a badge of honor

Yes we've all heard that a million times, just like "there should be consequences for death". Yet a lot of players like me instead just got frustrated and quit the game. It's not a badge of honor to get to 100, it's a frustrating chore after a certain point.