XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Again, you put words in my mouth and the mouths of others by strawmanning the anti-one-attempt position. The problem isn't with punishment, but how punitive the punishment is. Would you feel the same if a death meant a piece of gear could break? Could you imagine finding or buying a top 1% weapon, die to some bullshit or overconfidence, and suddenly the weapon is just poof gone?

But it's not how the game is designed.

"

CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

"

Fhrek#4437 wrote:

That is what I've being saying...

1 Portal + no Exp Penalty = OK
6 Portal + Exp Penalty = OK
1 Portal + Exp Penalty = BS

It isn't challenge, is gratuitos punishment for playing the game, has no risk/reward... just sure Risk and uncertain Rewards.

But, there is five disingenous forumites engaged in every thread acting to dereail any constructive feedback.

Personally, I'd keep the exp penalty. No exp penalty but 1 attempt mapping has some serious risk of map sustain problems. The droughts are real, whether you die or not.

Yeah, the 6 portals was a staple in PoE1 and never heard of people abusing. But, GGG tried to reinventing the wheel as a square.

"

MEITTI#3999 wrote:

"

Fhrek#4437 wrote:

"

MEITTI#3999 wrote:

Best case scenario GGG does what Fromsoft did and does not care about your feelings on the issue and will just ignore your pleas to casualize the game at the expense of its quality.

Nice to see someone so clueless about Elden Ring and Fromsoftware... after launch the game had some balancing to overall difficulty.

Radahn was nerfed.
Shield Counter hit box was extended.
Godskin Duo IA was softned.
DLC was overall nerfed.
Damage scaling and damage reduction was buffed per Skadutree fragments.
Consort Radahn fight nerfed as well.

Fromsoft listen to everyone and makes the game more and more casual.

Did I talk about overall balancing? PoE 2 has had patches buffing drop rates and nerfing and fixing bugged out monsters as well. Fromsoft has never taken death penalty mechanics away because people whined about it.

Why would they? the only death mechanics are respawning right before where you died and collecting your droped currency. Actually the stakes of Marika checkpoints outside of every boss room, is an addition they made. It obviously drastically reduces one of the major consequences of dying. Not sure you're really thinking your arguments through.

What is the actual, rational difference between "WE WANT SIX PORTALS AGAIN!!!!!" and "WE WANT INFINITE TRIES FOR OUR MAPS!!!!!"

There is none. Zip. Zero. Nada. Zilch-all. Jack monkey fuck-all squat. "No one's asking for infinite tries" is a dumb counter-argument to make because there's no actual practical difference between six tries and Infinite Tries. You're still asking to be allowed to Death Blitz the map and die/fail freely without cost or penalty.

The great screeching caterwaul for Six Portals is dumb because it has absolutely zero basis in rationality or gam design beyond "THIS IS WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN PoE1 AND PoE1 IS A PERFECT GAME THAT HAS LITERALLY DONE NOTHING WRONG EVER IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING AND EVERTHING SHOULD BE EXACTLY LIKE PoE1 FOREVER".

Others have said it - six portals with heavy EXP loss on death is a fucking trap. It means you burn up an entire level on content you weren't ready to do, instead of just one chunk of EXP. It's fundamentally backwards. It makes far more sense to retain One Portal with no EXP loss - instead of retroactively stealing progress you've already made, you simply do not progress forward. Blocking forward progress is much preferable to destroying already-achieved progress. Blocking continued progress makes you want to fix your shit so you can continue progressing. Stealing already-achieved progress makes you want to throw a controller and quit.

Frankly, I'm annoyed at myself that I didn't get the supporter pack map device that only provides a single portal. That would solve a lot of this, methinks - if people don't see six portals, they won't care about not getting to use the extraneous ones that really have no business being there. Refit the map devices in PoE2 to only show a single portal, and if you have to limit entry to the instance for economic reasons? Give that portal charges limiting how many players can enter it.

It's stupid. It's all just stupid. Just a bunch of knee-jerk reactionary howling from people who haven't fired a neuron voluntarily since 2009 and aren't about to start now.

"

stecheese1#0850 wrote:

Why would they? the only death mechanics are respawning right before where you died and collecting your droped currency. Actually the stakes of Marika checkpoints outside of every boss room, is an addition they made. It obviously drastically reduces one of the major consequences of dying. Not sure you're really thinking your arguments through.

Yeah, Elden Ring compared to Dark Souls is incredibly friendly about experience recovery. Every boss is basically right next to a respawn point. And you start to learn to make the most of your current soul count before entering any new or dangerous zones, saving consumables until you need to eek out a few more points to get that level point, making death far more tolerable. Elden Ring--like any well design souls-like--also gives clear and concise reasons for player death. You may think the boss or mob is bullshit, but at least you more or less know why you died. For PoE2, it'd be like you just randomly get shot from a giant with a long bow that never fires again for some unknown amount of time and if you're unlucky enough for it to kill you, tough titties. Friggen people would defend the yeti in SkiFree.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

The great screeching caterwaul for Six Portals is dumb because it has absolutely zero basis in rationality or gam design beyond "THIS IS WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN PoE1 AND PoE1 IS A PERFECT GAME THAT HAS LITERALLY DONE NOTHING WRONG EVER IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING AND EVERTHING SHOULD BE EXACTLY LIKE PoE1 FOREVER".

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Remember, if you die in a video game, it's most often your own fault, not the game fault for existing as is. Some people can accept to fail every now and then and to improve on it, some people can't.

Yeah, no, your fault if you can't back away from a 6 portal map and need the crutch of the game forcing you to stop.

"

Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

The great screeching caterwaul for Six Portals is dumb because it has absolutely zero basis in rationality or gam design beyond "THIS IS WHAT IT WAS LIKE IN PoE1 AND PoE1 IS A PERFECT GAME THAT HAS LITERALLY DONE NOTHING WRONG EVER IN THE HISTORY OF GAMING AND EVERTHING SHOULD BE EXACTLY LIKE PoE1 FOREVER".

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Remember, if you die in a video game, it's most often your own fault, not the game fault for existing as is. Some people can accept to fail every now and then and to improve on it, some people can't.

Yeah, no, your fault if you can't back away from a 6 portal map and need the crutch of the game forcing you to stop.

+1

"

Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Yeah, no, your fault if you can't back away from a 6 portal map and need the crutch of the game forcing you to stop.

Sure. But it also makes no damn sense from a design standpoint to give someone the chance to smash themselves into the same content they can't do six times instead of once, and then punish them each time they fail.

[Removed by Support], you're thinking with your PoE1 kneeflexes. You're asking for faster horses again. Drop the XP penalty but void the map and lock the node on map failure. It makes infinitely more sense from a design standpoint.

If the goal is to gear-check people and block them from progressing into content they're not ready to handle yet, then create a system that actually blocks people, not a system that allows people to freely and easily skip past where they should be only to get retroactively failed over and over for trying to do so. The XP penalty is dogwater; One Portal is fine. The other way around - infinite portals with a massive XP penalty on death - is stupid. Hell, even in real life, everybody says you learn more from failure than from success. Let people keep their XP, and the cost of learning is simply not making progress rather than actively losing it. That even stops the "negative feedback loop" Brumblez is complaining about, since you can slowly accumulate levels and power even with failed maps instead of being hard blocked permanently forever by constant XP loss.

Forget PoE1. It has no power here. Six portals is stupid; we can absolutely do better.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

Let people keep their XP, and the cost of learning is simply not making progress rather than actively losing it. That even stops the "negative feedback loop" Brumblez is complaining about, since you can slowly accumulate levels and power even with failed maps instead of being hard blocked permanently forever by constant XP loss.

Actually, no. You have a baseline that exp loss leads to, and that's back to 0 exp for next level. You don't de-level or anything like that. Map sustain, however, is significantly made worse by one-attempt maps, and map sustain is far more valuable. One or two deaths in otherwise consistently clearable difficulty levels during a map drought can send you back multiple tiers of maps, sometimes further if you can't even sustain that, and it could be content so easy you could do it blindfolded. Map sustain is the single biggest reason I am strongly against one-attempt. I had a serious drought (and I was NOT dying) back around T10/11 that got so bad I was stuck doing T6's and 7's before I finally started getting decent drop rates again. Keep tickling the taint of another drought thanks to have often I keep rolling +Mob damage and thanks to Warrior's current state of "armor and life is shit" I've stopped trying to run those unless I have to and it's a dud map or tower.