Are complains about portals, exp loss, and similar coming from zoomers (as in "kids")?

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TheFriggenBest#6781 wrote:

What gets me is do the people complaining about exp loss really think that gaining levels is somehow gonna make them stop dying?

If there's one thing this game isn't it's level dependent if you're having that hard of a time leveling up, the levels themselves aren't gonna change anything. Still gonna keep dying.

At the pinnacle level of difficulty (pinnacle bosses at +4, level 82 juiced maps with 4 modifiers added to rares, etc.), where gear costs 10 div minimum for even a tiny upgrade, the levels do start to make a difference (and maybe even sooner than that). For example at level 94 I was able to get the notable passive for +30% increased evasion rating and +30% increased evasion rating if you have dodge rolled recently. That node alone will likely over the long run save a handful of deaths.

But I generally agree with your point as the people complaining are almost certainly not in that category. I don't know if it is a zoomer thing or not, but I think the complainers are certainly not understanding the context of the game design choice.

Suppose 6 deaths were allowed per map. You could then juice your map with max loot quantity, max rare modifiers, and run t16 with +2. 6 attempts? No problem, any idiot that blindly follows a build guide can probably get through most or all of the map in 6 attempts.

The market would then be flooded with welfare cheap t1 gear. People would not need to spend nearly as much time to get their gear to a point where the game would be maxed out. GGG would then need to boost the difficulty on the pinnacle bosses to provide for some level of progression. Then you'd end up with a game that feels just like POE1 but with less content.

But only one attempt? You'd be wasting your currency and time unless you are prepared for it. And powerful gear remains something that you have to work for. The game stays fresh and replayable.

But the people complaining are never going to understand this, because they are looking for instant gratification.


I think that a good middle ground could be to allow for more attempts per map up to a certain zone level (like maybe 78). Only problem I see with that is that it might be seen as a rug pull to hit t15 and then now you're suddenly restricted to 1 attempt.

The multiple leagues idea is also something I'm not sure would work well. The easier league would risk becoming a ghost town over time when people decide they want to try the harder league with a more interesting economy. Or the economies in both leagues might collapse. I think they could probably get away with having the Standard league be more relaxed, and the seasonal leagues be restricted. They might do something like that, we'll have to see what they have planned.

Personally, I enjoy XP loss but I dont enjoy 1 portal maps. If I die, at least I probably know it was my fault. Granted... I would like PoE 2 to become a harder game with Ruthless drops and less loot in general.

PoE 1 is for super fun time and PoE 2 is for Super Fun Frustrating Time. Both games can accomplish what they set out to do.

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kamiknx#1162 wrote:

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exsea#1724 wrote:

sneaks in the word kids

To mean age, not zoomers as in people who doesn't give a shit about the game and just wants to go fast.

double speak exists. choice of words are deliberate.

and even then, if talking about age, that doesnt make it any less condescending does it?

youth, young etc could be used but kids was deliberate.

More than likely that's who it's coming from.

The only thing I'd change of those is the 1-death limit for maps, I think EXP loss is perfectly fine and should exist for more games.

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kamiknx#1162 wrote:

If you're a boomer that played games, there's a high chance your played some MMO or some other game where you had to grind for real to get to the end game.

I remember playing Priston Tale and being extremely happy when my exp went up 0.5% in an entire day.

Maybe the difference was that the game was better to play with friends? So I didn't mind the grind because I was chatting with people and stuff?

But I've also played another game that was solo, and it was the same, maybe you'll get 1% a day.

There's a very niche game that one of my friends play, he says it's worse than Priston Tale, you'll hit a point that you'll not get 0.5% not even in a week.

Have you had experiences in games like this? And what's your opinion on exp loss and portals?

Definitely not a zoomer here and I’ve got the receding hairline to prove it, lol. I can’t speak for anyone else but I have been an avid gamer for well over 20 years and I have never experienced a game that was this punishing or frustrating to play at the endgame (and I played D4). For what it’s worth I think the only people who are “okay” with the current state of things are diehard PoE fans in whose eyes GGG can do no wrong and who are frankly used to the abuse this game hurls at you so it doesn’t faze them anymore.

i find it ok to lose portals on death. It was too easy to corpserun in poe1.

The issue is not the death penalty, but the way deaths are occurs. Visual clarity and damage tweaking is what causes this issue. And then lack of skill maybe?

Yet running map 2nd time w/o modificators (even tablets don't affect those maps) - is too boring. I would suggest to mark incomplete map as traversable anyway.

Yes they fold & get toxic every time GGG up the difficulty of their title but they want you to believe everyone loving PoE 2 is a low skill normie .

Mid 30s here, and I have disliked exp loss on death in every game I have played with it. Thing is, I don't end up playing those games for long, because I dislike the mechanic that much. When I got to maps and noticed losing exp, I stopped playing the endgame. And I probably won't go back to the endgame as long as exp loss on death is still there. Instead, I rolled a few new characters and started playing through the campaign again.

To those saying that exp loss is needed because it "sends a message that you shouldn't be playing content that hard" I will say this; do you think we don't have a brain? Are we an idiot that need to be hit in order to understand that dying = bad? Please have a little more respect for people, don't just assume that people are stupid and won't understand that from dying alone. I have also seen people say that the extra levels won't do anything for you and don't matter. If that's the case, why care about taking away exp loss? To specifically punish others to make yourself feel better? It's a video game for gods sake, don't make it matter to you so much.

Regardless, I usually dislike exp loss on death due to exp curves being similar to exponential. I don't mind exponential leveling curves, but when there's exp loss on death I just lock the game away into the "why bother" pile, play what I find fun, and drop the game. And a large amount of people are like this. Ignore them if you want, but if those people are the new players then do so with fair warning, as the PoE1 players will go back to their old game, leaving PoE2 a husk.

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ArcaneArchmage#7600 wrote:

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kamiknx#1162 wrote:

If you're a boomer that played games, there's a high chance your played some MMO or some other game where you had to grind for real to get to the end game.

I remember playing Priston Tale and being extremely happy when my exp went up 0.5% in an entire day.

Maybe the difference was that the game was better to play with friends? So I didn't mind the grind because I was chatting with people and stuff?

But I've also played another game that was solo, and it was the same, maybe you'll get 1% a day.

There's a very niche game that one of my friends play, he says it's worse than Priston Tale, you'll hit a point that you'll not get 0.5% not even in a week.

Have you had experiences in games like this? And what's your opinion on exp loss and portals?

Definitely not a zoomer here and I’ve got the receding hairline to prove it, lol. I can’t speak for anyone else but I have been an avid gamer for well over 20 years and I have never experienced a game that was this punishing or frustrating to play at the endgame (and I played D4). For what it’s worth I think the only people who are “okay” with the current state of things are diehard PoE fans in whose eyes GGG can do no wrong and who are frankly used to the abuse this game hurls at you so it doesn’t faze them anymore.

Didn't play many games then. Back in the day almost every game was what people now call hardcore (actual hardcore, as in start the game over, not xp loss that people are now trying to say is hardcore). Personally I'd find having to completely start over to be much more punishing than losing 10% of your xp and a cheap entry token.

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

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lupasvasile#5385 wrote:

Personally, the only thing I do not like in POE 2 is the 1 portal rule. POE 1 had the good idea, and as some random guy on youtube once said: I "paid" for 6 portals, I'm gonna use 6 portals.
My proposed fix would be: let us use 6 portals, and if a boss is involved and you die, just reset its life each time.

The issue with that, and one of the reasons why they introduced the 1 portal mechanic in the first place is, that it highly promotes glass cannon builds. Glass cannon builds seem like the only logical way to play the game if we have 6 portals.

Because there is zero chance of losing when you have 6 portals. In PoE 1 with a glass cannon build you kill everything within two screens and kill bosses within two seconds. There is nothing that can kill you, because there is nothing alive on your screen. If for some odd reason the boss manages to one shot you within the two seconds it is alive, you simply use a portal and continue looting.

In PoE 1 glass cannon builds are faster and have no chance of failure. So they are always the better option.

In PoE 2 they tried to promote more balanced/tankier builds. That's where the idea for 1 portal came from.

Unfortunately, I think PoE2 promotes glass cannon far more than PoE1. I tend to like very tanky builds, but those are much riskier (in my experience) in PoE2 due to the greater challenge of scaling defenses and the increased damage output of mobs.

My solution has been to just kill everything before it can meaningfully attack, so I have just been building more and more damage at the expense of defense.

I feel like GGG needs to greatly increase defense effectiveness if they want to make glass cannon less meta.