Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

"

SaKRaaN#0012 wrote:

I agree . In softcore it is all about enjoying the farming and the play.

They should remove any penalty or hardcore mechanics from softcore.

pretty much this. softcore isnt for dumb mechanics that punish you for playing. if you want tryhard mechanics play hardcore, cuz otherwise it just devolves to wasting time.
all these arguments for xp loss are an excuse and not a valid reason, and the fact that a small minority keeps defending it, and claiming they are in fact a majority when they are only the loudest, makes me laugh.

They are not the majority, they are a minority. The majority doesnt want this pile of shit hardcore mechanics. Its literally one of the main reasons people dont want to invest time, because all this does is waste it. The game needs to focus on being hard not tedious. Too many ppl from PoE1 want PoE2 to be another tryhard game, whether it be to sell their shitty xp boosts or carries. The devs need to focus on balancing the game around players not boosters. Avoid the pitfalls poe1 has, and PoE2 will most certainly have more players than what blizzard has.
People dont demand an easy game, or afk game, they demand a game that respects their time. Neither 1 portal, xp loss or zone reset on death respect anyone's time. So they have to stop with this tryhard bullshit ffs

just going through some pages of this.... GGG will probably enable downleveling and put the penalty to 15%

YES!

"

ConradN7#7540 wrote:

[...]

softcore isnt for dumb mechanics that punish you for playing. if you want tryhard mechanics play hardcore, cuz otherwise it just devolves to wasting time.
all these arguments for xp loss are an excuse and not a valid reason, and the fact that a small minority keeps defending it, and claiming they are in fact a majority when they are only the loudest, makes me laugh.

They are not the majority, they are a minority. The majority doesnt want this pile of shit hardcore mechanics. [

...]

Please, show us the source of your majority/minority objective data. Or else it's just an opinion.

When people speak about the "vocal minority", they speak about the people -complaining-. We, so called "white knights", -defending- the game's design, are surely a minority too (compared to the "silent majority") but the big difference is that we only react to the complaints ; we aren't the ones complaining and trying to change a good thing into a whatever thing with baseless assumptions of what the result may be.

Also remember that you are the sole decider of how to spend your own time. If you feel like your time is being wasted doing something, you shouldn't do it.

this whole thread is an argument with one guy that isn't having fun because its too punishing for him to loose 10% exp. and that is " a fact " :D and every second post he speaks for "the majority of the players " .. just talk for yourself and move on to diablo if this isnt the right game for you ..

"

Quazaline#6370 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

You're definitely not talking about me. I'm actually looking at the big picture here, and the big picture is, PoE has AWFUL player retention. And a mechanic like this is one of the reasons for it.

this is just an outright lie that is disprovable, POE has one of the highest player retententions in any game ive played

Whilst i cannot link images this will show https://steamdb.info/app/238960/charts/#3y the 3 year steam DB charts for POE and you will see it has gone up season on season on 3 year

So feel free to not like a mechanic, or disagree with people but please dont use outright lies about player retention.

How does linking me a graph about the game having 200,000 players after 12 years(and only on league days), prove to me that the game has high player retention?

New player retention is awful in this game. It appeals to very few people. You can view this issue by looking at the reviews, as well as achievements of this game. People play for a bit, and quit after the ACT's, and most don't even get that far.

What you're seeing is the result of the game filtering out 90% of the players, and those are what's left. 200,000 players. And I guarantee you like 80% of those, are probably just coming for the leagues and playing through the acts one more time, because that's how it's portrayed everywhere you look.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

New player retention is awful in this game. It appeals to very few people. You can view this issue by looking at the reviews, as well as achievements of this game. People play for a bit, and quit after the ACT's, and most don't even get that far.

What you're seeing is the result of the game filtering out 90% of the players, and those are what's left. 200,000 players. And I guarantee you like 80% of those, are probably just coming for the leagues and playing through the acts one more time, because that's how it's portrayed everywhere you look.

How is that even a bad thing ? In the history of video game, a lot of products were made to be bought for 15-60$ and to be played for 50-100h. That's quite standard. PoE2 is the same. Playing the campaign as a casual is a blast.

And then, you also have the added option to play a infinite Endgame, for the ones seeking challenges. Which some games do, some don't. Is it a enormous time sink ? Hell yeah. Would most casuals players who already had a good time play it ? Surely not, they have better things to do with their life.

And casuals like tryharders both have reasons to come back for leagues, be it to check the new content or to start the grind anew.

So what ? It's not because you want to make PoE2 your main and only activity in your life that everybody does.

PoE2 is already a success. It will eventually get better with added content a few balance changes. They don't need to change the formula of the campaign, the endgame, or the videogame market. They already won everysingle one of these challenges by making a good and profitable free-to-play at a time where free-to-play were famous to be huge pile of sh*t, extreme gatcha, or simply bad games, which PoE1 was neither.

So cut it with the doom-saying. We know you don't like the feeling or dying in a video game. We got it. Do you know PoE & GGG doesn't like players that die ? It's written everywhere. It's coded that way. It's the blood of game : don't die.

If you don't like it, if you don't feel good by dying and being punished for it, well, that's normal. It's designed to not be enjoyable. Nobody likes it. But it's made for really good reasons. Reasons which are part of the grand design.

You can't change it with a too narrow minded view and only a bad feeling as a reason.

Thus, if you can't see further than your frustration, and as it was suggested many times, maybe this game isn't for you. Fighting to change such radical and core design isn't the way to go. Other games out there and made to avoid that feeling, while still offering you some sense of challenge of progress.

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

"

Quazaline#6370 wrote:

"

Akedomo#3573 wrote:

You're definitely not talking about me. I'm actually looking at the big picture here, and the big picture is, PoE has AWFUL player retention. And a mechanic like this is one of the reasons for it.

this is just an outright lie that is disprovable, POE has one of the highest player retententions in any game ive played

Whilst i cannot link images this will show https://steamdb.info/app/238960/charts/#3y the 3 year steam DB charts for POE and you will see it has gone up season on season on 3 year

So feel free to not like a mechanic, or disagree with people but please dont use outright lies about player retention.

How does linking me a graph about the game having 200,000 players after 12 years(and only on league days), prove to me that the game has high player retention?

New player retention is awful in this game. It appeals to very few people. You can view this issue by looking at the reviews, as well as achievements of this game. People play for a bit, and quit after the ACT's, and most don't even get that far.

What you're seeing is the result of the game filtering out 90% of the players, and those are what's left. 200,000 players. And I guarantee you like 80% of those, are probably just coming for the leagues and playing through the acts one more time, because that's how it's portrayed everywhere you look.

+1

Most of us are adults that have limited time to put into a game. The XP penalty doesn't encourage players to figure out what they are doing wrong and to get better. It encourages them to go play another game. You can punish people without making them feel like time has been wasted. That is all anyone wants and that is all that is needed to keep the game healthy (in a player retention way). Its a game, how it makes people feel and what the mechanics incentivize is far more important for success than anything else.

Maybe you could keep XP loss but make loot tables or XP gains 10-20 times better or reduce loss to like 2% to make up for it. But those solutions sound like they would make the game far easier then just replacing XP loss with XP debt or another alternate punishing mechanic would.

Seen folks say that it conflicts with GGGs vision and okay, sure. You totally get to stick to your artistic vision and no one can tell you it is wrong. But you also don't get to complain that people "don't get it" or "don't like it". And enough don't like it you definitely do not get to complain when it doesn't make enough money to stay around.

Something that's also getting lost seems to be that the leaks we have gotten (assuming they are real) imply Tencent (GGG's owners) want the opposite of what the XP loss defenders want. Tencent seems to want POE 1 to be the hardcore game and POE2 to be the more casual cash grab. If POE 2 doesn't do that and fails, what do you think will happen? Either they:
Shut down POE 2 and POE 1 is made even easier to try to bring in the cash
2)POE 1 will be shut down to force everyone on to POE 2 and it will be made an easier game to try to keep them there or
3) they shut down the studio because its not making enough. Line must go up and all. If you want a more hardcore game it seems like you are better off hoping they make POE 1 the harder game or advocating for a replacement penalty that still makes death meaningful but that doesn't make people leave.

The current situation is just not something a company is going to like. Only 7 people at 100 after a month that included holidays and college kids having time off, Steams player base losing aprox 2/3rds of its members and dropping (https://steamdb.info/app/2694490/charts/#1m), the reviews saying they stopped playing at endgame. The current situation is not sustainable for a game in todays market.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

How is that even a bad thing ? In the history of video game, a lot of products were made to be bought for 15-60$ and to be played for 50-100h. That's quite standard. PoE2 is the same. Playing the campaign as a casual is a blast.

Because. PoE is a live service game. That's what they do.

And it's free. So the situation should look even more problematic.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about, nor do I really care at this point. DwQRf.

"

Nyon#6673 wrote:

"

noother10#5677 wrote:

What character's journey is shorter? The one grinding to 100 because there is no death penalty or the one who quits the game at 75 because of it (partial reason my friend and I quit).

I hate being rude.
But if the xp penalty prevented you from getting past lvl 75 then it was a good decision to quit cause you wouldnt have been able to do anything in the game.

You lose 10% exp and on lvl 75 10% exp is like 3 monster packs.

He didn't say he couldn't get past 75. He said he didn't want to put up with the punishments. There's a difference.

Anyone can get to level 100, all you have to do is follow a meta build and avoid any and all challenging maps. Slowly grind your way up.

That is the opposite of challenging gameplay.

If that's your idea of challenge, they could simply place a "Rock of Pain and Woe" in town. Bash your head against the rock 100,000 times and you level up. That takes the same sort of effort - just grinding through the tedium.

I honestly just find it an outdated mechanic.

I'd rather see the following (nerf xp gain by 10٪ after lvl 70 and give a 10 or 15% bonus xp for your next map when you beat a map without dying. Promote good play but also doesn't stress/frustrate you when you die.