Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?

I don't see any rational explanation for the XP penalty when we have other penalties (closing portals, losing stone, losing loot, losing map mechanics). What is the justification from a game perspective and everything that goes with it (player engagement, motivation, encouraging conclusions)?

I also don't see any rational explanation for defending the XP penalty. What is the added value of this penalty in the context of other penalties? How does this penalty positively affect the player who receives it? I'd like to understand what motivates people to defend self-limitation. Let me remind you that we're talking about the current situation where we have other penalties (closing portals, losing stone, losing loot, losing map mechanics).

Moving on. A quick thought experiment. What is the limit for the XP penalty? Why don't we roll back a whole level? Or five? For people who accept a 10% XP penalty, would it be okay to lose all 5 levels? If not, why not?

GGG roll back lvl 5, because why not...

And please don't call me Blizkid, that would be so childish. And if your only argument is that I should play D4, then don't comment.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

How is that even a bad thing ? In the history of video game, a lot of products were made to be bought for 15-60$ and to be played for 50-100h. That's quite standard. PoE2 is the same. Playing the campaign as a casual is a blast.

Because. PoE is a live service game. That's what they do.

And it's free. So the situation should look even more problematic.

Not sure what the rest of your post is about, nor do I really care at this point. DwQRf.

Then it means I'm right, again.

Then you are going to claim again that no one gave you argument as to why there is a death penalty ; when you just refuse to read what people are telling you, because deep down you know they are right but you don't like it.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Then you are going to claim again that no one gave you argument as to why there is a death penalty ; when you just refuse to read what people are telling you, because deep down you know they are right but you don't like it.

The main argument for the XP penalty is that players must be taught to avoid challenges.

If a map might kill you, you have no business running that map. Go do something easier.

Wanting a game that actually challenges you every step of the way and forces you to EARN your progress is crazy talk.

If you aren't dying regularly, the game is too damn easy.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

If you aren't dying regularly, the game is too damn easy.

Right.

Right right right.

HARDCORE is the easiest game mode ever, and surely not even challenging.

Riiiiiight.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Then it means I'm right, again.

Then you are going to claim again that no one gave you argument as to why there is a death penalty ; when you just refuse to read what people are telling you, because deep down you know they are right but you don't like it.

Yes, that's all that matters to you. Being right. I know this after reading all of your threads trying to bully people into agreeing with you. There's dozens of them each day.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Then you are going to claim again that no one gave you argument as to why there is a death penalty ; when you just refuse to read what people are telling you, because deep down you know they are right but you don't like it.

I have never once in any of my posts, claimed that no one is giving me arguments about XP loss on death.

I know the arguments. I understand the arguments. I even understand the feelings behind them.

I'm just able to realize that the mechanic is unhealthy if the goal of this game is more widespread appeal, and there are many signs that can point to this. Like low player retention. Players quitting after the acts(and most do). Players avoiding end-game. Players avoiding doing more difficult maps. Among others.

I want the game to do well. I want lots of people to play it.

What we don't need, is a handful of players who get an ego boost from the mechanic. Asking for it to be kept in the game, because without it. They couldn't spend multiple weeks on the forums arguing with people and trying to forcefully get them to change their viewpoint. All you're doing is showing that this community is awful.

Tell me again, how many posts you have attacking the feedback others give now?

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Then it means I'm right, again.

Then you are going to claim again that no one gave you argument as to why there is a death penalty ; when you just refuse to read what people are telling you, because deep down you know they are right but you don't like it.

Yes, that's all that matters to you. Being right. I know this after reading all of your threads trying to bully people into agreeing with you. There's dozens of them each day.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Then you are going to claim again that no one gave you argument as to why there is a death penalty ; when you just refuse to read what people are telling you, because deep down you know they are right but you don't like it.

I have never once in any of my posts, claimed that no one is giving me arguments about XP loss on death.

I know the arguments. I understand the arguments. I even understand the feelings behind them.

I'm just able to realize that the mechanic is unhealthy if the goal of this game is more widespread appeal, and there are many signs that can point to this. Like low player retention. Players quitting after the acts(and most do). Players avoiding end-game. Players avoiding doing more difficult maps. Among others.

I want the game to do well. I want lots of people to play it.

What we don't need, is a handful of players who get an ego boost from the mechanic. Asking for it to be kept in the game, because without it. They couldn't spend multiple weeks on the forums arguing with people and trying to forcefully get them to change their viewpoint. All you're doing is showing that this community is awful.

Nobody cares or read anyways.

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Mouser#2899 wrote:

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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noother10#5677 wrote:

What character's journey is shorter? The one grinding to 100 because there is no death penalty or the one who quits the game at 75 because of it (partial reason my friend and I quit).

I hate being rude.
But if the xp penalty prevented you from getting past lvl 75 then it was a good decision to quit cause you wouldnt have been able to do anything in the game.

You lose 10% exp and on lvl 75 10% exp is like 3 monster packs.

He didn't say he couldn't get past 75. He said he didn't want to put up with the punishments. There's a difference.

Anyone can get to level 100, all you have to do is follow a meta build and avoid any and all challenging maps. Slowly grind your way up.

That is the opposite of challenging gameplay.

If that's your idea of challenge, they could simply place a "Rock of Pain and Woe" in town. Bash your head against the rock 100,000 times and you level up. That takes the same sort of effort - just grinding through the tedium.

Consistency in a tedious situation is a challenging skill to have. Look at all of the comments of the people that don't have that skill. They wont make it 100, that's fine. They just need to adjust their frame of reference; If you don't put in the effort, don't expect the same as everyone else. Simple as.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

What we don't need, is a handful of players who get an ego boost from the mechanic.

Yeah, everyone who likes XP loss and is arguing that without it too many people will get to 100 and thus their achievement is worth less are not helping their cause. If I run a Marathon in an hour my achievement is not lessened because someone else did it in 5 hours, it looks more impressive. Yes, with (as an example replacement) XP debt vs xp loss people will eventually get to 100 if they play long enough. If it takes them 4-5 times as long who cares? And lets be real, how many people are actually gonna do it that way. Even playing smart it takes forever to reach 100, i seriously doubt many people are going to put in 4-5 times the amount of hours to hit 100 even if XP loss is replaced with XP debt. Whats more likely to happen is people with limited time have been given the leeway to experiment and figure out what they are doing wrong.

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Nyon#6673 wrote:

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Orion_3T#9801 wrote:

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ogmersault#4806 wrote:

I think this thread should be locked at this point. It’s 94 pages of people using the same examples over, and over, and it has started to devolve into some really cringy unsolicited,”educating”. I think it’s safe to say we’ve done enough to convey our feedback on the xp penalty.

Some people see value in an xp penalty, while others feel frustrated by it. That’s all there is. Let ggg figure out the metrics and figure out how to move forward. This horse is dead

There's not much point locking it because someone will just start a new one tomorrow.

The XP penalty is a massive "I quit" trigger. Many players who might otherwise play for thousands of hours will quit because of this.

Absolutely nobody will quit because they find out the XP penalty has been removed. Though there is some argument that because it might shorten their character's journey somewhat - that would depend on implementation like tweaks to the XP curve etc. And, I suspect, would not change much in reality. And if added as an option, even less so.

Its removal would probably not cost them any significant number of players but its inclusion will certainly cost them many players.

It's for them to decide if they care about that or if they feel it's core to their vision for the game. It's definitely not one of their core pillars of ARPG game design and runs contrary to 2 of them.

So, I know what I would do and it seems like a no brainer not to at least try it in early access and gather feedback.

You just have a extremely narrow view and your incapable of seeing an issue from someone else perspective.

You disagree with it so its a massive problem and people will quit if it doesnt get changed.
But the people on the other side who disagrees with you they will just be fine with it if its changed against their will.
Because your opinion is more important.

The truth is that the people who want it removed are in a minority.
Another truth is that for that minority removing the xp penalty wont achieve anything.

The people who are complaining about the exp penalty now will either:
A) Quit
B) Get better at the game and keep playing

If they removed the exp penalty then the only thing that would happen was that Group A would play for maybe 2 more days and then they would start complaining about something else (1 portal per map, the trials, difficulty of the pinnacle boss, damage of mobs, etc, etc) and eventually they will quit anyway. Because the fact is that this game isnt for them and they will just keep ramming their head into "issues" trying to get them changed utnil eventually they give up and quit.

Lol, lmao. I level to 95+ easily and I will never return once there is a reset as long as this shit stays in the game, what a gross disrespect to a players time. I only need to die once and that is hours of my time gone if it happens. If it happens just once then that is enough for me to just quit. Good thing this is PoE, a game where it is easy to make nearly immortal/OP builds.
You do not understand, fundamentally, what you are arguing for and against. Stop feeling personally attacked by someone not liking a mechanic. This is about retention and respecting a players time, if a player leaves satisfied they are likely to return. How can you miss this obvious truth? You are either incredibly dishonest or intentionally gaslight people to make your point look like it has merit.

If people got their way this game would let people level to 100 in a day, there would be infinite portals, no rarity or quant on anything but every monster would be a loot pinata, you could run any skill/support gem combo and kill anything in the game, and absolutely everything would be easy and trivialized. We already have that game though, its called Diablo 4.