please get rid of MF, make players WANT to play SSF

"

girng#7675 wrote:

i disagree wholeheartedly. d2 style inventory (or tetris style) is awesome and far better than 1 item per slot. it also adds to item weight and value, because some items take up smaller sizes and others take up larger ones (staff vs 1x1 currency item) for example.

So you think having to leave maps 2-4 times just to disenchant all the rares that drop and deposit currency / waystones / skill gems is a good thing?

We’re not gonna find common ground here.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

this morning i watched a ryhkker vid on the subject and he pointed out something i forgot.

LE SOLVED this issue.

you could play "SSF" or "Trade" as an opt in. if you played "SSF", there were ways to influence your drops so you could get more of what you wanted. while if you prefered to trade, you wouldnt get "tailored" drops but have access to trade and ability to use items from trading.

so what you mentioned is one of the many things i would want in POE2.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

Sucks, but what can ye do?

check out how LE balanced SSF vs Trade. they've already solved it.

I thought I addressed that. Last Epoch tried to "solve" this by having what amounts to Trade and SSF leagues. SSF leagues get absolutely, utterly stupidiculous drop buffs. Like, loot explodes from mobs' ears even worse than PoE1.

The "solution" still failed. As I understand it from having read about it secondhand a few times, it's generally still held that trade league is much better for making specific builds - and LE is a game with dramatically lerss build diversity and gearing than PoE. Frankly, if at any point SSF is ever actuall 'better' at creating targeted builds than trade league, the game as a whole has utterly failed - and since that is the thing people in Path of Exile want to do? Trade league is going to be the de facto standard regardless of whatever.

"

Blasphemous84#2190 wrote:

"

girng#7675 wrote:

i disagree wholeheartedly. d2 style inventory (or tetris style) is awesome and far better than 1 item per slot. it also adds to item weight and value, because some items take up smaller sizes and others take up larger ones (staff vs 1x1 currency item) for example.

So you think having to leave maps 2-4 times just to disenchant all the rares that drop and deposit currency / waystones / skill gems is a good thing?

We’re not gonna find common ground here.

Yeah inventory is fine tbh. I don't want Diablo 4 inventory.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

Enlighten me, how does other people playing trade affect your solo self found experience?

What does it accomplish to say "trade league bad, ssf good". Do you think GGG will just implement every single decision you want when they remove trade? Probably not. So it still wouldn't be what you want, except you would remove what other people enjoy. Okay cool.

i did not say trade league bad.

but i can explain to you why the ability to trade makes SSF bad.

in games, droprates are balanced simply based on whether or not the game is meant for single player economy or trade economy.

a good example is grimdawn. the drops feel impactful and you can reasonably find good upgrades with "enough" crafting materials because the droprate is adjusted to a single player experience.

IF the devs decided that the game is focused on a multiplayer environment, they would be forced to make drops less abundant as players are expected to trade for whatever items they're lacking.

also "why would anyone trade if everyone already has what they need"? if everyone can grind and drop/craft good boots by themselves in a reasonable amount of time, players wont feel the need to trade with other players.

this actually can have a negative impact to players who WANT to trade. they have decent gear but no one WANTS it as they could craft it on their own. making decent items have low value while godlike items be worth mirrors.

theres always a pro and con to everything.

thus, with that said, the ability to trade forces GGG to make the droprate bad in order to give more value for players to entice them to trade.

thus for SSF'ers their enjoyment can be reduced as its harder to get upgrades as the drops are shittier.

I only use currency I have gathered myself to slam items. I can slam whatever I want without running out of currency. Probably 50 items a day.

There are players who are successful on SSF (and HCSSF) this early, that have "completed" endgame, and have level 95+ characters (higher than mine can get on trade). They are just better than me.

Players are better than me and you, have better builds than me and you, and manage to do just fine in SSF.

My argument is, SSF is already balanced despite being balanced alongside trade (and that was the developers intention), you just wish it was as easy as trade so you could succeed in it with your own scuffed build and play.

What is your counterpoint to that?

"

Blasphemous84#2190 wrote:

"

girng#7675 wrote:

i disagree wholeheartedly. d2 style inventory (or tetris style) is awesome and far better than 1 item per slot. it also adds to item weight and value, because some items take up smaller sizes and others take up larger ones (staff vs 1x1 currency item) for example.

So you think having to leave maps 2-4 times just to disenchant all the rares that drop and deposit currency / waystones / skill gems is a good thing?

We’re not gonna find common ground here.

every item you loot is tied to inventory management. it's a thing. what you're suggesting is ability to just pickup all the rares in the map and auto sell them? no, that's not how it works. looting an item is an action that takes time. item types have sizes that also fill up space. it's all correlated together. not sure how you don't see this

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

I thought I addressed that. Last Epoch tried to "solve" this by having what amounts to Trade and SSF leagues. SSF leagues get absolutely, utterly stupidiculous drop buffs. Like, loot explodes from mobs' ears even worse than PoE1.

The "solution" still failed. As I understand it from having read about it secondhand a few times, it's generally still held that trade league is much better for making specific builds - and LE is a game with dramatically lerss build diversity and gearing than PoE. Frankly, if at any point SSF is ever actuall 'better' at creating targeted builds than trade league, the game as a whole has utterly failed - and since that is the thing people in Path of Exile want to do? Trade league is going to be the de facto standard regardless of whatever.

i guess we're just gonna have to disagree with each other on that tho.

i will agree that diversity wise LE is definitely not as good as POE. but gearwise. i had a huge lot of fun picking up gear and crafting em, shattering stuff to get more shards. i didnt feel too punished for bricking crafts.

i also would agree with you halfway that if SSF is better than trade, its a failure of design.

but with the caveat that in the IDEAL world, they should be somewhat on similar, where SSF and trade should be more or less equally good. LE still is the game that is the closest to this balance.

trade being the facto is the current way POE is. i agree. and this is why i keep mentioning LE solved it. it does not take away from trade, but instead gives an option for SSF players to play the game without relying on trade.

i dont get the "ssf stupid strong drop buffs" being bad when POE map juicing exists. also if the player is playing in SSF mode, how does that affect you? you could still play in the trade league and enjoy the "normal" drops.

but i do agree IF ggg made all drops buffed, trade would suffer.

"

exsea#1724 wrote:

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

I thought I addressed that. Last Epoch tried to "solve" this by having what amounts to Trade and SSF leagues. SSF leagues get absolutely, utterly stupidiculous drop buffs. Like, loot explodes from mobs' ears even worse than PoE1.

The "solution" still failed. As I understand it from having read about it secondhand a few times, it's generally still held that trade league is much better for making specific builds - and LE is a game with dramatically lerss build diversity and gearing than PoE. Frankly, if at any point SSF is ever actuall 'better' at creating targeted builds than trade league, the game as a whole has utterly failed - and since that is the thing people in Path of Exile want to do? Trade league is going to be the de facto standard regardless of whatever.

i guess we're just gonna have to disagree with each other on that tho.

i will agree that diversity wise LE is definitely not as good as POE. but gearwise. i had a huge lot of fun picking up gear and crafting em, shattering stuff to get more shards. i didnt feel too punished for bricking crafts.

i also would agree with you halfway that if SSF is better than trade, its a failure of design.

but with the caveat that in the IDEAL world, they should be somewhat on similar, where SSF and trade should be more or less equally good. LE still is the game that is the closest to this balance.

trade being the facto is the current way POE is. i agree. and this is why i keep mentioning LE solved it. it does not take away from trade, but instead gives an option for SSF players to play the game without relying on trade.

i dont get the "ssf stupid strong drop buffs" being bad when POE map juicing exists. also if the player is playing in SSF mode, how does that affect you? you could still play in the trade league and enjoy the "normal" drops.

but i do agree IF ggg made all drops buffed, trade would suffer.

Trade is literally cheat mode and I don't want the game to be even remotely as easy as trade league. SSF is fine, the difficulty is where it should be loot wise.

-

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

I only use currency I have gathered myself to slam items. I can slam whatever I want without running out of currency. Probably 50 items a day.

Quite frankly, I don't believe you. I run T15/16 frequently, with juiced maps and over 100% MF on my character's gear. I'm lucky if I get one Exalted a map, while spending two or three to run it, if I'm fully juicing (depending on if I use an Alchemy or Regal/Exalted). I can't possibly afford to roll items at the same time.

So either something else is affecting drops, or you're full of it.

"

1453R#7804 wrote:

I thought I addressed that. Last Epoch tried to "solve" this by having what amounts to Trade and SSF leagues. SSF leagues get absolutely, utterly stupidiculous drop buffs. Like, loot explodes from mobs' ears even worse than PoE1.

The "solution" still failed. As I understand it from having read about it secondhand a few times, it's generally still held that trade league is much better for making specific builds - and LE is a game with dramatically lerss build diversity and gearing than PoE. Frankly, if at any point SSF is ever actuall 'better' at creating targeted builds than trade league, the game as a whole has utterly failed - and since that is the thing people in Path of Exile want to do? Trade league is going to be the de facto standard regardless of whatever.

So you've never tried LE but are making judgements about it? I've never played the Trade Faction in LE, I've never had a problem gearing any build I've wanted to make. I have hundreds of hours in LE and have tried many different builds. It's not nearly as bad as you want to pretend it is.

"

AverBeg7#1689 wrote:

What is your counterpoint to that?

there are casuals, there are sweaters, there are people who follow builds, there are those who dont. there are people who are lucky, there are those who are not.

the fact is there are many people who are playing the game and feeling the itemization is "not sufficient".

i personally was overleveled and had a tough time "SSFING". i was over 80 and was tired of doing lower tier content, i solved everything INSTANTLY by just trading for items that i wanted. my resists were fixed. my survivability improved, and i made progress.

similarly on the campaign i was 5-10 levels overleveled but when i got really good drops or if my yolo crafts worked out, i would suddenly be able to progress.

when i rerolled, thanks to all the old gear i kept, the game was so much easier.

for sure you had a good time and found everything sufficient. but thats YOUR experience. whatever i say cannot invalidate your experience. i will not try to because its stupid of me to do so.

on the flipside, just because you managed to get what you need, does not mean others are having the same experience.

heck, if you're up for a challenge try rolling a trumelee warrior and not resort to cheesing strats such as cry/totem builds and not resort to using twink gear.

it might change your viewpoint. or... it wont.. but in either case, just because you didnt see a problem with it, doesnt mean others shouldnt.