Make T17's Difficult Again

"

ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

"

Toforto wrote:

That doesn't change the fact that these maps suck to run for the average player.

I've got a real, genuine question for you, and I want you to think about your answer for a couple minutes before replying:

Should average players be able to clear T17 maps?

Because if you think about this for a few minutes and decide that the answer is "yes," we are so fundamentally opposed in our viewpoints of what role pinnacle content should play in a game like this that there is no point in even attempting to discuss it any more. We are never going to agree.

Yes.

I'm done and tired of repeating the same stuff anyway, all I can do is just re-bump posts and hope they nerf these maps more.

Now I'm curious. Should Valdo maps then also be doable by the average player?

"

Scarletsword wrote:

Now I'm curious. Should Valdo maps then also be doable by the average player?

Those are completely optional side-content, t17s are not. They give insane rewards, they drop uber boss fragments. Valdo maps are just 99% memes and the other 1% are mageblood maps with the feared sent to the void etc. etc. on them. They're completely different things and not comparable at all.

Valdo maps are just basically what sc players do at the end of month 1 of the league when they're bored and just rip in a void map lol

Shoutout to GGG for not balancing around whatever this group of players would be called or the game would have been dead years ago

"

Piousqd wrote:

This might be an unpopular opinion, but the nerfs to T17's were too much. The fact that it is now common place for farming strats to include going 80% deli orb in T17 is all the proof you need.

Now common place...all the proof we need? We are 2 months into the league. People are selling 10 mirror builds on TFT. T17s should be easier this late in the league.

Fun fact about games: All content in a game should be accessible to most players with an ACCEPTABLE amount of challenge. If a large percentage of players can't get to all content for whatever reason, the game is a failure.

For people whining about T17s being too easy, stop playing standard league and only play SSFHC and/or stop endlessly grinding for better gear/stats and play like a normal human being.

Do you know what happens if a game continues to ramp of the difficulty/grinding over time just to appease 'hardcore' players that have tons of time to spend on one game? It ends up dying a slow death because the largest number of people (aka most potential money) stop playing out of frustration and then it's very difficult to get them back.

"

Death_OnA_Stick wrote:

Fun fact about games: All content in a game should be accessible to most players with an ACCEPTABLE amount of challenge. If a large percentage of players can't get to all content for whatever reason, the game is a failure.

That is just objectively untrue. Like to a comical extent. Mythic raids in WoW are only cleared by a fraction of the player base. Only like 20% of players on steam have completed Elden Ring. In OSRS only a tiny fraction of the community completes the inferno or colliseum.

Believe it or not, there is a subsection of people who enjoy having aspirational content in games that challenges them.

"

Death_OnA_Stick wrote:

...

And yet you wouldn't change an existing rhythm game with a core community to suddenly mainly appeal to people with zero rhythm or in terms of PoE "capped learning resistance".

Also actual fun fact about games: The biggest spenders are longterm whales by a long shot. Unless you can get the game to grow tenfold in a short period despite killing off your core playerbase and somehow sustain it, you're likely not getting a better ROI.

"

Death_OnA_Stick wrote:

Fun fact about games: All content in a game should be accessible to most players with an ACCEPTABLE amount of challenge. If a large percentage of players can't get to all content for whatever reason, the game is a failure.

For people whining about T17s being too easy, stop playing standard league and only play SSFHC and/or stop endlessly grinding for better gear/stats and play like a normal human being.

Do you know what happens if a game continues to ramp of the difficulty/grinding over time just to appease 'hardcore' players that have tons of time to spend on one game? It ends up dying a slow death because the largest number of people (aka most potential money) stop playing out of frustration and then it's very difficult to get them back.

True, the more they add this kind of crazy content that's made for the 1% the more the playerbase is gonna get alienated. I know what it's like to be an average casual, because I've been one for a while. The only difference is that now I can do campaign in 10 hours and get to maps faster, that's it. I still copy paste builds and can't make my own. But it used to take me a full week of playing all day to get through campaign years ago, then another few weeks to get through the sirus endgame and get all voidstones on the regions of the atlas + awakening objectives on all maps.

When I say the average player, I mean those players. I don't think some people understand just how intimidating and impossible this kind of content is for 80% of players that just lurk in global chat 820 or 420 kek, just take a look at how popular boss carries and voidstone carries are in softcore trade, every single day multiple people are non-stop selling boss carries to either full groups or 2-3 people at once and print divines off it. Do you know why people buy carries? Because they either just can't do the content or are too intimidated to even try it(for example maven, some people might be worried of failing the memory game and losing their invitation, and that's fair enough those maven's writs take a while to farm up and are a bit expensive). Now just imagine how they feel about t17 maps, maybe they tried a few and got absolutely obliterated by the insane map mods. Maybe they tried them even before the chaos orb rerolling change, so now they just will not go near them until they hear about another nerf/hear from a friend at about equal skill level that they're fun to run now. And that's the end of it, all those players can only aspire to do this aspirational content, but never actually touch it.

I'm sorry but not every player has a perfect "melee" trickster CI projectile attack skill build with mageblood,nimis,90 all res,max suppress,phys taken as ele,40k evasion,10k armor,ghost shrouds,15k es build to play the game with. And even on those you can still get random one-two shots lol, because some map mods just entirely disable parts of your build or entire defenses. If the entry level to do t17 maps comfortably is 5 mirrors(or more I dunno), then something is clearly wrong here.

"

Toforto wrote:

If the entry level to do t17 maps comfortably is 5 mirrors(or more I dunno), then something is clearly wrong here.

Yea there is something wrong here.

The person thinking 5 mirrors is needed for entry level to t17s.