t17 are still objectively completely overtuned for the content bridge ..
Also, I don't think you understand the word objectively. Everything about this post and the responses to it are subjective.
He's right though, they are objectively overtuned for most casual players in sc trade. Even players that follow a step-by-step pob guide probably struggle with these maps most of the time. I'd love to see some stats from GGG showing us what % of players that are into endgame with 4 voidstones and all fav map slots+full 132 atlas skill points actually do t17s and what % of them completely ignores the content and sells them in bulk. Because as they are t17s are just an annoying chore with annoying mods,mobs and bosses. I'm probably just gonna buy carries for all t17-related challenges next league then just sell all the ones that drop. Sucks that they generate so much gold but if GGG refuses to rebalance them then the only thing players can do is just ignore the content itself.
Wow it sure is achieving its goal of being "bridge content" between ubers and normal endgame when people who can do uber bosses skip t17s huh.
All I can do is just keep pushing for a rework/more nerfs until they're actually properly balanced.
I'd prefer they went back to being unrollable personally, keep the high variance in difficulty then you have a niche for the more powerful without it cucking the non meta players.
If you roll an easy one currently they are pretty accurate bridge content its only when your doing the really heavily modded one that the comparison becomes laughable.
Letting them be rollable just means you can always turn it into what you want which kinda defeats the point IMO.
I get where you are coming from, but I think that is a step backwards.
There were a few problems with unrollable.
1. It pigeon-holed players into a smaller number of builds that could take ignore as many mods as possible
2. It removes the currency sink they currently function as, which is good for the economy.
3. We already have unrollable versions, both from corrupted t17s produced by people farming 8-mod corrupted maps in t16, and Valdo's maps.
You are right that rolling them correctly makes them easy. The majority of people complaining that t17's are too hard have probably not bothered to figure out what mods their build can't handle or are just too lazy to roll them correctly.
All of the mods have specific bonuses associated to them though, and for the most part, the harder ones are more rewarding.
Example:
Players have -20% to all maximum Resistances
20% increased Quantity of Items found in this Area
12% increased Rarity of Items found in this Area
25% increased Pack size
Sure, most players should probably roll this off their map, but if you can run it, you definitely should, and the fact that you have that choice to juice your map that way, vs adding scarabs/deli orbs, etc, is pretty cool.
People who complain about the cost of rolling t17's dont look at it this way. How much would you pay for a scarab that had that effect and didnt take up a scarab slot? More than a few chaos i bet.
Yeah but no matter how rewarding it gets from a mod you rolled, its never worth it if the map becomes impossibly difficult. Especially the map boss if you get something like attack speed or life as energy shield on enemies lol
And there are still mods that disable entire builds, and mods that are just unfun to run so you always have to waste chaos rolling over them. deal no damage every x seconds etc. etc. I'm just tired of listing them at this point. It's obvious which mods they are, they should just be deleted. Valdo mods also don't belong in these maps.
t17 are still objectively completely overtuned for the content bridge ..
Also, I don't think you understand the word objectively. Everything about this post and the responses to it are subjective.
He's right though, they are objectively overtuned for most casual players in sc trade. Even players that follow a step-by-step pob guide probably struggle with these maps most of the time. I'd love to see some stats from GGG showing us what % of players that are into endgame with 4 voidstones and all fav map slots+full 132 atlas skill points actually do t17s and what % of them completely ignores the content and sells them in bulk. Because as they are t17s are just an annoying chore with annoying mods,mobs and bosses. I'm probably just gonna buy carries for all t17-related challenges next league then just sell all the ones that drop. Sucks that they generate so much gold but if GGG refuses to rebalance them then the only thing players can do is just ignore the content itself.
Wow it sure is achieving its goal of being "bridge content" between ubers and normal endgame when people who can do uber bosses skip t17s huh.
All I can do is just keep pushing for a rework/more nerfs until they're actually properly balanced.
1. That's still not an objective statement, you are just adding your opinion, along with the information that you aren't even claiming to have seen statistics to back it up.
2. If you can do uber's, and can't do t17's, its because you chose to make a bossing build. Otherwise, you can obviously do both.
3. If the issue is that you think T17's are annoying, that's a whole different argument. Just like the dozens of other choices you have to farm in POE, you can skip T17's. Nothing about them is mandatory, they were intentionally left off the atlas.
4. Just because GGG has called them "a bridge to ubers" does not mean every casual player should be able to do them. Uber's are aspirational content. A casual player who puts in a couple of hrs on saturdays should not expect to do ubers, and thus it makes sense that they may also have trouble in T17's.
1. That's still not an objective statement, you are just adding your opinion, along with the information that you aren't even claiming to have seen statistics to back it up.
2. If you can do uber's, and can't do t17's, its because you chose to make a bossing build. Otherwise, you can obviously do both.
3. If the issue is that you think T17's are annoying, that's a whole different argument. Just like the dozens of other choices you have to farm in POE, you can skip T17's. Nothing about them is mandatory, they were intentionally left off the atlas.
4. Just because GGG has called them "a bridge to ubers" does not mean every casual player should be able to do them. Uber's are aspirational content. A casual player who puts in a couple of hrs on saturdays should not expect to do ubers, and thus it makes sense that they may also have trouble in T17's.
I really don't think there's that many different builds that can comfortably farm t17s and uber bosses without worrying about dying. And ofc the ones that do exist cost multiple mirrors. That's bad game design.
So the bridge content is also aspirational content then? I guess the big chunk of players that still hate t17s can only aspire to do them, but never actually do them because the maps are so insanely overtuned. What's the point in designing something for the top 0.01%? The whole idea of "aspirational content" is just this weird vague thing, it makes no sense. When literally so many players can't do it after pouring tens or hundreds of divines into their builds then something is clearly wrong here.
Last edited by Toforto#2372 on Sep 30, 2024, 4:06:13 PM
1. That's still not an objective statement, you are just adding your opinion, along with the information that you aren't even claiming to have seen statistics to back it up.
2. If you can do uber's, and can't do t17's, its because you chose to make a bossing build. Otherwise, you can obviously do both.
3. If the issue is that you think T17's are annoying, that's a whole different argument. Just like the dozens of other choices you have to farm in POE, you can skip T17's. Nothing about them is mandatory, they were intentionally left off the atlas.
4. Just because GGG has called them "a bridge to ubers" does not mean every casual player should be able to do them. Uber's are aspirational content. A casual player who puts in a couple of hrs on saturdays should not expect to do ubers, and thus it makes sense that they may also have trouble in T17's.
I really don't think there's that many different builds that can comfortably farm t17s and uber bosses without worrying about dying. And ofc the ones that do exist cost multiple mirrors. That's bad game design.
So the bridge content is also aspirational content then? I guess the big chunk of players that still hate t17s can only aspire to do them, but never actually do them because the maps are so insanely overtuned. What's the point in designing something for the top 0.01%? The whole idea of "aspirational content" is just this weird vague thing, it makes no sense. When literally so many players can't do it after pouring tens or hundreds of divines into their builds then something is clearly wrong here.
Have you just never played a meta build? I was farming t17's this league with wands that were less than 2d. One of them I crafted on a betrayal bench, literally chaos spamming.
This is the other one, and its been sitting in a 100c sales tab for weeks and not selling.
“Freedom is what we do with what is done to us.”
Last edited by Piousqd#0073 on Sep 30, 2024, 4:14:41 PM
Have you just never played a meta build? I was farming t17's this league with wands that were less than 2d. One of them I crafted on a betrayal bench, literally chaos spamming.
I always play the same meta build I saw on the forum years ago every league, what does that have to do with everything I just said? Doesn't matter what build I play, lots of other people have been complaining about t17s. Also I tried a KB CI trickster with headhunter this league and it literally made my textures disappear from all the explosions, so I guess I can't play builds that have too many on-screen effects because this game is so well optimized lol(and before people start saying "oh just buy a 10k$ PC", my fps is 60 in all other content while not in a party, the game just dies when there's too many projectiles/explosions on-screen)
None of this changes the fact that t17s are still overtuned, if they even slightly buff them in any way that would be a huge mistake and a huge step backwards. They're already super hard to run.
Have you just never played a meta build? I was farming t17's this league with wands that were less than 2d. One of them I crafted on a betrayal bench, literally chaos spamming.
I always play the same meta build I saw on the forum years ago every league, what does that have to do with everything I just said? Doesn't matter what build I play, lots of other people have been complaining about t17s. Also I tried a KB CI trickster with headhunter this league and it literally made my textures disappear from all the explosions, so I guess I can't play builds that have too many on-screen effects because this game is so well optimized lol(and before people start saying "oh just buy a 10k$ PC", my fps is 60 in all other content while not in a party, the game just dies when there's too many projectiles/explosions on-screen)
None of this changes the fact that t17s are still overtuned, if they even slightly buff them in any way that would be a huge mistake and a huge step backwards. They're already super hard to run.
It matters because you are complaining that they are too hard for people who play casually or don't have mirror tier gear. I'm telling you that's simply not true. Maybe try a new build? and you definitely dont need a 10k$ PC.
Lets use me as an example:
1. I'm a mediocre player (died 15+ times trying to kill hillock in gauntlet)
2. I have a full-time and a part-time job outside of POE.
3. I play on a $1k PC, from 2020.
and yet, I don't have a problem with T17. In fact, I'm arguing for them to be harder. So if its not my expert dodging skills, and its not my 14 hrs a day playing the game, and its not my streamer quality PC... do you think maybe its you or your build?
Of course there are lots of people complaining about harder content. POE is a game with 200k+ players at league start. Just because there are people complaining along with you doesnt make your complaints valid.
It matters because you are complaining that they are too hard for people who play casually or don't have mirror tier gear. I'm telling you that's simply not true. Maybe try a new build? and you definitely dont need a 10k$ PC.
Lets use me as an example:
1. I'm a mediocre player (died 15+ times trying to kill hillock in gauntlet)
2. I have a full-time and a part-time job outside of POE.
3. I play on a $1k PC, from 2020.
and yet, I don't have a problem with T17. In fact, I'm arguing for them to be harder. So if its not my expert dodging skills, and its not my 14 hrs a day playing the game, and its not my streamer quality PC... do you think maybe its you or your build?
Of course there are lots of people complaining about harder content. POE is a game with 200k+ players at league start. Just because there are people complaining along with you doesnt make your complaints valid.
Ok, but I still think t17s are overtuned and way too hard. It's not me nor my build, its the maps. It exactly does make my complaints valid when I'm not the only one saying them. And I'm gonna keep complaining, every single time I have any bad experience with these maps until they decide to fix them.
It matters because you are complaining that they are too hard for people who play casually or don't have mirror tier gear. I'm telling you that's simply not true. Maybe try a new build? and you definitely dont need a 10k$ PC.
Lets use me as an example:
1. I'm a mediocre player (died 15+ times trying to kill hillock in gauntlet)
2. I have a full-time and a part-time job outside of POE.
3. I play on a $1k PC, from 2020.
and yet, I don't have a problem with T17. In fact, I'm arguing for them to be harder. So if its not my expert dodging skills, and its not my 14 hrs a day playing the game, and its not my streamer quality PC... do you think maybe its you or your build?
Of course there are lots of people complaining about harder content. POE is a game with 200k+ players at league start. Just because there are people complaining along with you doesnt make your complaints valid.
Ok, but I still think t17s are overtuned and way too hard. It's not me nor my build, its the maps. It exactly does make my complaints valid when I'm not the only one saying them. And I'm gonna keep complaining, every single time I have any bad experience with these maps until they decide to fix them.
I can see that. Which is exactly why I made this post. So GGG see's that there are people who appreciate the challenging content. I'll make sure to keep an eye out for your post so that I can offer this this view point, at every chance you get. xD
