Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

The item is popular cause it's a very good budget shield for a decent budget defense.

The item is popular because "Lucky" somehow ignores max Block cap, which I didn't even know was a thing. As far as I was concerned, Block cap was a hard limiter and "Lucky" only rolled twice and used the highest result. How this circumvents a hard cap is beyond me. Probably not intended and fixed after this league.

How would the math on your understanding even work? It rolls twice, checks if either number passes the threshold for "hit was blocked" and if either did the hit is blocked. I genuinely can't think of a way to implement any hard cap on this mechanic without taking into account previous rolls. This is basic statistics 101.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Regardless of data showing you its a buff, its a nerf lmao

Cant make this stuff up

Don't forget that he's doubling down on it by grandstanding about how he once did a video and had a good budget tank build 5 years ago. This kinda appeal to authority is cringeworthy at best in the face of being presented with actual facts over some emotional attachment to wardloop.

Ruby, Topaz and Sapphire Flask were nerfed for the top end because it was comically easy to become almost immune to elemental damage.

5 Endurance Charges now have the same effect as having either of those flasks active which are a lot more accessible to more builds even, so while the landscape has shifted defensively, it has only become easier to achieve this result on more builds, because a lot of builds want more offense out of their flask setup (this is a buff because more bonk = more better)

Wardloop is such a niche topic in the grand scheme of character defences. There are so, so many builds out there. I get that you're upset that this one in particular which is dear to your heart got nerfed, but such is life in live service games. Look at how many iterations of Worm Blaster have existed over the years for christ's sake.

Personally I am a big fan of Flamewood Totem Support and the removal of both the Chieftain Totem Recoup node as well as Ancestral Warchief have been direct nerfs to the skill. But I understand that there were reasons for doing that and that my personal bias shouldn't get in the way of the devs making positive changes for the game.

With your attitude, Baumi, the game would be stagnant because with every change the devs make someone would say "but what about MY build" and if you can't see that, I'm sorry, you are being egotistical.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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stnikolauswagne wrote:

How would the math on your understanding even work?

Well, that's the thing: I assumed it cannot bypass the max cap, so it would have been a stellar staple for builds with like 40-50%-ish Block, not builds that are already capped. That's why I think this is unintended behavior. It makes no sense to have a hard cap bypassed by a result that rolls twice, like, from a coding perspective.

"Lucky" has been in the game since Lori's Lantern (added in 2013 btw) and has always had the same effect. Roll twice, take the better result. It's so simple.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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stnikolauswagne wrote:

How would the math on your understanding even work?

Well, that's the thing: I assumed it cannot bypass the max cap, so it would have been a stellar staple for builds with like 40-50%-ish Block, not builds that are already capped. That's why I think this is unintended behavior. It makes no sense to have a hard cap bypassed by a result that rolls twice, like, from a coding perspective.

The hard cap is a max on the chance of an individual roll, in ugly pseudocode

boolean wasHitBlocked(){
return new Random.nextDouble()<Math.min(Character.MaxBlockChance,Character.ChanceToBlock);
}
boolean wasHitBlockedLucky(){
return wasHitBlocked()||wasHitBlocked();
}

Another implementation (which is identical if you do the math) is

boolean wasHitBlockedLucky(){
return Math.min(new Random().nextDouble(),new Random().nextDouble()<Math.min(Character.MaxBlockChance,Character.ChanceToBlock))},

which will yield the exact same result, in either case the "bypassing the hard cap" does not come from the fact that individual rolls roll higher than the max block cap but rather that the rolls are unevenly distributed and more likely to be above the treshold

There are no facts in my post if you ignore all the facts. You brought up a super niche case of a particular Ward-based build and I said my piece on that also. I understand you want Ward to be more popular, but we're discussing all defences and not just your niche usecase for a niche defensive layer which even before this league was underutilized.

And sorry if that sarcasm hurt your feelings. It shouldn't stop you from reading past the first paragraph though. Might be why you think there's "nothing in there" :-)

"I'm right, you're wrong"

Now you convinced me, Baumi.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Don't forget that he's doubling down on it by grandstanding about how he once did a video and had a good budget tank build 5 years ago. This kinda appeal to authority is cringeworthy at best in the face of being presented with actual facts over some emotional attachment to wardloop.

You use the word "facts", yet present none. Here's a fact for you: Ward is so irrelevant that poeninja still doesn't have a filter column for it.

This is the weirdest hill to die on. Are you familiar with the interaction between Beacon of Madness and Olroths Flask? The net effect in the current patch is 14k ward, constantly up,

https://pobb.in/IdRL_MuPUr-m

would be a sample PoB, but you can find a bunch of ward builds by looking for either the yndas stand belt, olroths resolve or faithguard.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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stnikolauswagne wrote:

This is the weirdest hill to die on.

What is weird is how I mention Ward and Ward Loop and the word "gatekeep", and suddenly I got people jumping me as if I said you can't make a build with Ward and Olroth's Resolve. No idea why you are getting hung up on Ward. I wasn't even talking about Ward, I mentioned it because there are clearly top performing builds on GGG's radar that are influencing balancing decisions that indirectly affect other builds, too. Like, how we can't have stronger flasks because of Mageblood, etc. Whatever that has to do with anything else I said is beyond me at this point. It's like y'all are just waiting in ambush, ready to strike when someone mentions something you have a strong opinion about.

I don't have any opinion whatsoever on ward, its just weird to mention either olroths resolve or ward as being in any way nerfed when both are more popular (and stronger) than ever outside of the very specific niche of wardloop (which seems to actually have gotten hit hard). So GGG nerfed that specific build and buffed the mechanic and I genuinely can't find anything pointing to anything else.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

You are just not correct. You think you are, but you are not.

Do you guys not have phones?

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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stnikolauswagne wrote:

I don't have any opinion whatsoever on ward, its just weird to mention either olroths resolve or ward as being in any way nerfed when both are more popular (and stronger) than ever outside of the very specific niche of wardloop (which seems to actually have gotten hit hard). So GGG nerfed that specific build and buffed the mechanic and I genuinely can't find anything pointing to anything else.

I said, and I quote:

"

Olroth's Resolve was nerfed as well, so it's even worse for Ward based builds thanks to Ward Loop.

Going from 70% less Ward to 85% less Ward is because we got a new belt and because of Ward Loop, not because of your niche build that happens to build around Ward. Ward Loop was super popular and demonstrably super strong.

And apparently it's not as obvious to you as it is to me, so allow me to clue you in on my thoughts: The belt slot is rather competitive. But that belt is so fucking strong that you want to use it. But because this belt is so strong and GGG know how strong Ward Loop is, they had to nerf Olroth's Resolve. But what if I can't/don't want to use the belt? Then the flask is a net nerf.

How that equates to whatever makes you apparently sit on needles ready to jump me with PoBs to try and devalue my opinion is quite confusing to me.

https://poe.ninja/builds/necropolis/?items=Olroth%27s+Resolve&allskills=!Cast+when+Damage+Taken+Support

Must be horrible for all the 5 people in necropolis who used Olroths Resolve before, which is coincidentally the same number of people who use it without the belt now

https://poe.ninja/builds/settlers/?items=!Ynda%27s+Stand,Olroth%27s+Resolve&allskills=!Cast+when+Damage+Taken+Support

The item was unuseable outside of wardloop before and now it is useable in a niche build outside of wardloop, still unuseable everywhere else and ward in general got stronger. If you intentionally choose to make bad builds by not including the build defining pieces available that is your choice.

The meta changes, thats the fun of this game. Some things (flat armour on determ, olorths raw%) get taken away so some other things(better bases, yndas belt, higher life rolls) can get added.

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

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stnikolauswagne wrote:

https://poe.ninja/builds/necropolis/?items=Olroth%27s+Resolve&allskills=!Cast+when+Damage+Taken+Support

Must be horrible for all the 5 people in necropolis who used Olroths Resolve before, which is coincidentally the same number of people who use it without the belt now

I mean... if you intentionally select everything BUT Ward Loop, then sure...

https://poe.ninja/builds/necropolis/?items=Olroth%27s+Resolve

Now, check out all those characters.

To quote you:

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BaumisMagicalWorld wrote:

Yes, Ward received a buff. And yet, I'd still like to effectively use it on an Olroth's build that isn't being gatekept by the existence of Ward Loop.

My argument is this:

Before this league absolutely no one used Olroths outside of wardloop, this league there is a niche-but-strong build that uses olroths outside of wardloop.

So is your issue now that the item has lower numbers, that wardloop got nerfed or that it got worse outside of wardloop?

I'm genuinely curious, because in my mind Olroths is a fundamentally dangerous item, if it ever gets too good it risks creating actually immortal characters, which is bad for the game.