lets discuss - "exploit early, exploit often" is new legit meta? or its become new rule?

Why are people trying to conflate using a strong skill with taking advantage of some sort of exploit? People want to play melee, so they pick BS and so now they're engaging in exploitative behaviour? Absurd. Especially something so broadly established as the skill to probably play if you're playing melee, especially league-start melee.

Look at the context and stop engaging in phallic, semantic jousting. This isn't a business setting where you're exploit an opportunity; and even then, it's to someone else's detriment. Who in their right mind thinks using a skill with better scaling is the same as using a bug or cheating? Nobody other than those hyperventilating in a forum.

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hmcg020 wrote:

Why are people trying to conflate using a strong skill with taking advantage of some sort of exploit?

Because “exploit” in this context is a poorly defined term.

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hmcg020 wrote:

Why are people trying to conflate using a strong skill with taking advantage of some sort of exploit? People want to play melee, so they pick BS and so now they're engaging in exploitative behaviour? Absurd. Especially something so broadly established as the skill to probably play if you're playing melee, especially league-start melee.

Look at the context and stop engaging in phallic, semantic jousting. This isn't a business setting where you're exploit an opportunity; and even then, it's to someone else's detriment. Who in their right mind thinks using a skill with better scaling is the same as using a bug or cheating? Nobody other than those hyperventilating in a forum.

Because 99% of this thread and all the belly-aching is conflating "exploiting" with cheating or abusing bugs. When in fact, exploiting is way way way way looser of a behavior and a term. Both in real life AND in this video game.

Semantics is EVERYTHING. It is one thing to CHEAT and use illegal software to modify the game. It is another thing to EXPLOIT poorly coded numbers within the game to play the game to your advantage. Plus, the onus is on a different party between the two terms which is pretty much the core complaint about this situation. A cheater is at fault for going out of their way to "illegally" interact with the game. An exploiter is only partially at fault, with the majority of the fault being on the game developer creating a situation where the exploit existed in the first place.

When the point of all this is to raise the pitchforks to "ban the cheaters"...we are wading into territory where semantics is literally the difference between guilt or innocence, fault or no fault. So yes...the entire argument hinges on semantics.

Exploiting a game comes in all forms, and they aren't all just "using bugged items". And yes: using a clearly op and unbalanced skill IS exploiting the game. When you KNOW that skill is likely getting nerfed. How often does that happen in this game? You KNOW the skill is essentially "bugged" and will require fixing, but you play it anyway because it is ridiculous for any gamer to just simply turn away from something absurdly powerful. Same with using busted farming techniques. Same with using busted crafting.

And hell, for this very issue, we have historical evidence of bugged items being OKAY to use and keep. The standard 20000% fire resist armor? Still exists today. YEARS later. Why should anyone assume there is anything wrong with this situation when GGG has already basically told us.....bugged items are fair game. There is this thing in the real world called "precedent". GGG turning around and punishing folks for THIS is like a huge middle finger to everyone who has complained about that bugged armor since they were first created. And it's a major double standard against their own rules.

So at this point, the MOST GGG can and should do is delete the problem. And that's what they do. Time and time again. Delete the bugged items. Delete the OP skill from existence. Delete the OP broken farming mechanic. Delete the OP interactions. But the behavior on the player end of things is all equal. You take whatever "strongest" current mechanic there is, whether it is related to damage farming or items, and you milk it dry until it doesn't exist anymore. Exploiting the mistakes made by GGG, knowing full well that they will not exist in 3-4 months or sooner if hotfixed.

And frankly, unkind though it may sound, I play games to have fun FOR MYSELF. I don't play a game for your sake or anyone else's sake. If something broken in the game is going to make it a more fun experience for myself, you bet your bottom I'm going to mess around with it. Who the heck cares about how it may damage the market? Who the heck cares about how, somewhere down the line, collective behavior might negatively impact the overall market. I am there to have fun, not give two thoughts to anyone else. And I would put lots of money down that, while people may not outright say it for fear of being attacked, they feel exactly the same way. "To someone else's detriment" is such an unrealistic, unsupported, unbelievable argument to make. That sounds well and good on the forum, but that is not how people play games....in fact "winning" is always going to be "to someone else's detriment". Does that mean any game with winners and losers...shouldn't? I'm not going to go out of my way to hurt others, through scams and the like, or hurt the game through straight up cheats and hacks, but I will use everything that the developers have in the game while it exists.

People that bought bugged 6l items were taking a very low odds gamble that they could keep it at best. People who sold these items, well they knew what they were doing was wrong in my opinion. Should they be banned? Maybe the few who made many items and listed them for sale because that's just bad for the game at that point.

one downside of balancing the game based on multiplayer economy is that EVERYONE will take whatever advantage they have over another.

NGL, if there was a trick that allowed me to print mirrors, I WOULD NEVER SHARE the info to ANYONE. not even GGG, not even my IRL friends (tho i would pass them mirrors upon request).

back when we could reroll life rolls on uniques via harvest, i actually was one of the people who found out about it and did actually have plans to use it.

i told no one about it but IIRC some people posted on reddit, GGG found out and it was patched out.

there is no incentive not to benefit from this.

its the same like how people found out about some jewel recipe and made bank until they decided they made enough and made the info public knowledge.

knowledge is power.

and in POE thats quite apparent especially with the way they make vendor recipes.

is there a divine recipe? is there a mirror recipe? who knows. and if i know i m not telling anyone.

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sevens67 wrote:

People that bought bugged 6l items were taking a very low odds gamble that they could keep it at best. People who sold these items, well they knew what they were doing was wrong in my opinion. Should they be banned? Maybe the few who made many items and listed them for sale because that's just bad for the game at that point.

considering there is ton of bugged stuff in std, seemed like low odds devs gonna delete my items.

also after the exalt/div swap chris said: but you should diversify and bought items... and now here we are.

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feral_nature wrote:

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sevens67 wrote:

People that bought bugged 6l items were taking a very low odds gamble that they could keep it at best. People who sold these items, well they knew what they were doing was wrong in my opinion. Should they be banned? Maybe the few who made many items and listed them for sale because that's just bad for the game at that point.

considering there is ton of bugged stuff in std, seemed like low odds devs gonna delete my items.

also after the exalt/div swap chris said: but you should diversify and bought items... and now here we are.

as a STD andy, i find it in poor taste that he would say that. but yeah GGG doesnt care about the permanency of STD.

which is a good way to reduce my long term interest in a game.

i disliked POE1's melee but stuck around all the way till the end of affliction.

then i remembered. why am i still playing this game?

i roughed it out all these years and grit my teeth to earn stuff in temp leagues to bring back to std because POE2 was coming, and POE2 was going to expand POE1.

my gear on STD would have value.

legacy items and legacy rolls exists for STD andys.

i played so long because of STD exclusively. not because of interesting temp league mechanics.

the sad reality is GGG doesnt care for standard. div/exalt switch, alt quality gems getting downgraded, cluster jewel nodes being retroactively changed (as opposed to allowing the older ones to exist as legacy mods) are all a slap to the face of STD enjoyers.

i definitely will play poe2 but if theyre gonna treat poe2 std the same way, i probably wont stick around as long as i had in poe1.

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exsea wrote:

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feral_nature wrote:

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sevens67 wrote:

People that bought bugged 6l items were taking a very low odds gamble that they could keep it at best. People who sold these items, well they knew what they were doing was wrong in my opinion. Should they be banned? Maybe the few who made many items and listed them for sale because that's just bad for the game at that point.

considering there is ton of bugged stuff in std, seemed like low odds devs gonna delete my items.

also after the exalt/div swap chris said: but you should diversify and bought items... and now here we are.

as a STD andy, i find it in poor taste that he would say that. but yeah GGG doesnt care about the permanency of STD.

which is a good way to reduce my long term interest in a game.

i disliked POE1's melee but stuck around all the way till the end of affliction.

then i remembered. why am i still playing this game?

i roughed it out all these years and grit my teeth to earn stuff in temp leagues to bring back to std because POE2 was coming, and POE2 was going to expand POE1.

my gear on STD would have value.

legacy items and legacy rolls exists for STD andys.

i played so long because of STD exclusively. not because of interesting temp league mechanics.

the sad reality is GGG doesnt care for standard. div/exalt switch, alt quality gems getting downgraded, cluster jewel nodes being retroactively changed (as opposed to allowing the older ones to exist as legacy mods) are all a slap to the face of STD enjoyers.

i definitely will play poe2 but if theyre gonna treat poe2 std the same way, i probably wont stick around as long as i had in poe1.

from what ive seen so far, i dont think i will even try poe2.

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exsea wrote:

yes dude!

Oh. My. God. I agreed with Exsea on something.....Well now I KNOW I wasn't being too optimistic in assuming that many, if not most, other players think and play the game the same way I do lol :)

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the sad reality is GGG doesnt care for standard

well now they doesnt care for poe1! feel RLY bad now...

i love poe but this leag where bug on bug and exploints everywhere + I N S A N E L Y _ U L T R A unforgivable SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW fixes to those cheaters mega gamebreak bugs kills all hope for poe1

oh and no bans to abusers just make it tru and new rules for GGG