Instant buyouts confirmed in PoE 2

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Nomancs wrote:

You just agree with me all the time, and just adding context - yes, market can be cornered, even if goods are produced. Even in real life. With various situations, while goods are still produced with as huge market as real life. PoE market is a lot smaller, thus easier to control. Do you know how many veiled orbs are listed? It takes pennies to grab em all.

It already happened, so why try to decline the truth that many goods on the market can be cornered?

No, market cant be cornered if good are entering

Your links ALL talked about situations where there was NO income of goods, i quoted them: "concert tickets", "limited editions", "consoles not being produced because component shortage"... yes you can control the market if theres no income of new stuff, i said so on the first post, but on stuff that have a constant influx? Im still waiting for an example

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feike wrote:

No, market cant be cornered if good are entering

wrong, any market can be cornered at any giving time and instant buyouts make it only easier.
Many games with a large market and a instant buyout function have proven that in the past, but I'm sure you assume it's impossible because you either haven't really played any games with a instant buyout yet or never paid much attention to the buy/resell behavior of items on said markets.

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feike wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

You just agree with me all the time, and just adding context - yes, market can be cornered, even if goods are produced. Even in real life. With various situations, while goods are still produced with as huge market as real life. PoE market is a lot smaller, thus easier to control. Do you know how many veiled orbs are listed? It takes pennies to grab em all.

It already happened, so why try to decline the truth that many goods on the market can be cornered?

No, market cant be cornered if good are entering

Your links ALL talked about situations where there was NO income of goods, i quoted them: "concert tickets", "limited editions", "consoles not being produced because component shortage"... yes you can control the market if theres no income of new stuff, i said so on the first post, but on stuff that have a constant influx? Im still waiting for an example

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market
Enjoy, there are examples like silver, cocoa, onion

I guess you might be not aware that in most if not all countries there are laws prohibiting such manipulations, it is main reason why we don’t see it on global scale, and why it is done mostly by scalpers. Link I added have some examples of laws established after market being cornered. But yet, it still happens sometimes.

I don’t know why you deny it, despite it is happening in other games and in real life, or even in poe itself. You say it can’t happen - but it already did.

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Nomancs wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market
Enjoy, there are examples like silver, cocoa, onion

Dude, seriously, you even read your link???

Like...
Although there have been many attempts to corner markets by massive purchases in everything from tin to cattle, to date very few of these attempts have ever succeeded; instead, most of these attempted corners have tended to break themselves spontaneously. Indeed, as long ago as 1923, Edwin Lefèvre wrote, "very few of the great corners were profitable to the engineers of them.


And indeed, almost every example blowed on the scam attempt, even with no government involvment:
James Fisk, Jay Gould and the Black Friday
...Gould made a small profit from this operation by hedging against his own attempted corner as it was about to collapse, but he lost it in subsequent lawsuits

1920s: The Stutz Motor Company
...is an example of a manipulated corner ruining everyone involved, especially its originator Allan Ryan

1970s: The Hunt brothers and the silver market
In September 1988 the Hunt brothers filed for bankruptcy under...

1990s: Hamanaka and the copper market
...As his scheme collapsed, Sumitomo was left with large positions in the copper market, ultimately losing US$2.6 billion

2008: Porsche and shares in Volkswagen
...It was ultimately unsuccessful, leading to the resignation of Porsche's chief executive and financial director and to the merger of Porsche into Volkswagen.

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feike wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market
Enjoy, there are examples like silver, cocoa, onion

Dude, seriously, you even read your link???

Like...
Although there have been many attempts to corner markets by massive purchases in everything from tin to cattle, to date very few of these attempts have ever succeeded; instead, most of these attempted corners have tended to break themselves spontaneously. Indeed, as long ago as 1923, Edwin Lefèvre wrote, "very few of the great corners were profitable to the engineers of them.


And indeed, almost every example blowed on the scam attempt, even with no government involvment:
James Fisk, Jay Gould and the Black Friday
...Gould made a small profit from this operation by hedging against his own attempted corner as it was about to collapse, but he lost it in subsequent lawsuits

1920s: The Stutz Motor Company
...is an example of a manipulated corner ruining everyone involved, especially its originator Allan Ryan

1970s: The Hunt brothers and the silver market
In September 1988 the Hunt brothers filed for bankruptcy under...

1990s: Hamanaka and the copper market
...As his scheme collapsed, Sumitomo was left with large positions in the copper market, ultimately losing US$2.6 billion

2008: Porsche and shares in Volkswagen
...It was ultimately unsuccessful, leading to the resignation of Porsche's chief executive and financial director and to the merger of Porsche into Volkswagen.

Lol, there are both, examples who failed and succeeded. What are you on about? That it worked in some cases and didn’t in others? Isn’t it obvious? You wanted examples it can be done and there they are, you choose to quote those that failed xD

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Nomancs wrote:

Lol, there are both, examples who failed and succeeded. What are you on about? That it worked in some cases and didn’t in others? Isn’t it obvious? You wanted examples it can be done and there they are, you choose to quote those that failed xD

I literally quoted in B and I, it fails way more often than not. Coming from your own link

You talk like its a 50/50, i can only guess you are grasping at wathever straw you can at this point

But sure, talk about you "economics" will ruin the game because on a scam that history already shown almost always blows on the scamer's face

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feike wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Lol, there are both, examples who failed and succeeded. What are you on about? That it worked in some cases and didn’t in others? Isn’t it obvious? You wanted examples it can be done and there they are, you choose to quote those that failed xD

I literally quoted in B and I, it fails way more often than not. Coming from your own link

You talk like its a 50/50, i can only guess you are grasping at wathever straw you can at this point

Because there are rules that prohibit most of such actions on real life market?

You even got them yourself and probably missed it:
" but he lost it in subsequent lawsuits"

"Porsche claimed that its actions were intended to gain control of Volkswagen rather than to manipulate the market: in this case, while cornering the market in Volkswagen shares, Porsche contracted with naked shorts—resulting in a short squeeze on them."

much of the fall occurring on a single day now known as Silver Thursday, due to changes made to exchange rules regarding the purchase of commodities on margin

Hamanaka confessed in June 1996, and pleaded guilty to criminal charges

It was ONLY stopped by regulations PoE doesn't have. Yet, some succeeded.








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Anyway, I proved what you wanted, THAT IT CAN BE DONE:

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feike wrote:

Cornering the market actually dont exist on real life FOR STUFF THAT HAVE CONTANT INFLUX OF NEW GOODS.

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feike wrote:

No, market cant be cornered if good are entering

We went to:

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feike wrote:

As for EVE, yeah, theres manipulation, alright.

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feike wrote:

it fails way more often than not (because of real life law regulations)

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Nomancs wrote:

Because there are rules that prohibit most of such actions on real life market?

You even got them yourself and probably missed it:
It was ONLY stopped by regulations PoE doesn't have. Yet, some succeeded.
it fails way more often than not (because of real life law regulations)

IDK where you fished that notion that big mass buyouts only fail because of regulations. The notion of regulated market is something that only got more strengh in the last decades and even today is a hotly debated topic. In fact, your own links tell how scalpers are a thing because legislation over that activity, and market-controling cornering, are flimsy

The wiki quote that it almost never works comes from 1923, back at a time when regulations were still entering the scene both on US and EU, in that date, the US didnt even had a proper anti-trust law

Okay, you are right that sometimes... maybe... once in a blue moon... perhaps... yeah, it may work

Splitting hair over a scam that was already tried multiple times on history and almost never suceed... dont seem very smart

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feike wrote:

Okay, you are right that sometimes... maybe... once in a blue moon... perhaps... yeah, it may work

In a world where in most countries this kind of activity is mostly illegal, anti-monopoly acts and so on, with trillions of dollars market, it still sometimes happen. Yes, thank you. And in video games it is daily bread and butter.

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Nomancs wrote:

In a world where in most countries this kind of activity is mostly illegal, anti-monopoly acts and so on, with trillions of dollars market, it still sometimes happen. Yes, thank you. And in video games it is daily bread and butter.

Spoken like it is a massive thing

You need to go out more... for all the talk about how it happens, you can still buy a superbowl ticked on the internet, you can still buy a broadway ticked on the internet, you can still buy tickets for basically every theater without worrying about scalpers

Yeah, i was perfectly aware of some of the example listed on the wiki. And thing is, these scams have been pulled since times immemorial, the wiki actually lists one from before christ

But you know what: Although there have been many attempts to corner markets by massive purchases in everything from tin to cattle, to date very few of these attempts have ever succeeded

And not even from regulations, again, no idea where you fished that idea since your own articles talk aboout how those are flimsy, but: instead, most of these attempted corners have tended to break themselves spontaneously