Instant buyouts confirmed in PoE 2

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exsea wrote:

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Silverpelt wrote:

I'll try again.

Instant buyouts?

No need to deal with people who set a low price on their items but ask for much more when you send them a whisper?

No more 1000 whispers to not get an answer or have to deal with (see above) some people?


Awesome.

Gen-X here.

the boomers in this forum will hate you and say everything is fine the way it is

lol

Not this one. I'm all for instant buyout.

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inisfree1952 wrote:

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exsea wrote:

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Silverpelt wrote:

I'll try again.

Instant buyouts?

No need to deal with people who set a low price on their items but ask for much more when you send them a whisper?

No more 1000 whispers to not get an answer or have to deal with (see above) some people?


Awesome.

Gen-X here.

the boomers in this forum will hate you and say everything is fine the way it is

lol

Not this one. I'm all for instant buyout.

me neither, i m happy for it.

i always point one thing out.

GGG made trading harder so that players spend more time playing their game rather than trading.

this was true back when everyone used the forums to trade.

now everything is streamlined and even the stuff that drops are balanced around trade.

we've come to a point that if GGG wanted us to spend more time playing the game, they need to make trading faster.

i dont want to trade all day. i want to kill stuff.

if we think about it, it a very interesting way of solving the same problem.

objective:
1. make players spend less time trading
2. make players spend more time killing mobs/doing content

POE1 classic approach:
- discourage trading, this was done by making trading difficult and "unfun".
- the idea was players would dedicate a "small" amount of time in forums during their "gaming downtime" to browse the forums, learn to setup their own trading posts, contact players to trade with.
- the reality is players spend a lot of time out of the game learning how to setup shops on the forums. players wasted TONS of time combing thru all the forum posts to see whats available. players wasted TONS of time messaging each other, it didnt help that this was during the age where sellers would put their items up for auction so getting that awesome item could take literal weeks or even a month before the auction closed.

POE1 modern evolution:
- GGG sold a solution to their problem by selling premium stash tabs which facilitated trading, and even updated their website so that players have proper tools to easily trade.
- that helped speed up the process tremendously but we got a new problem. instead of players spending a lot of time and effort trading outside of the game, they were wasting a LOT of time trading in game. besides the regular "meet in HO and trade" which could take time as sometimes players were stuck in ingame content. players also had a bad experience "queuing" to get trades from players that gave good rates. players also had worse experience even finding active players to trade with, with many players simply not responding to anyone. net result was many players wasted a huge lot of time trading rather than playing the game.

POE2 solution:
1. fuck all that, hurry up and trade and get back to farming yall.

boomers would typically rant about how the economy is going to be inflated.

newsflash boomers. its going to happen either way. making trade difficult DOES slow it down, but it happens either way. anyone remember what happened to hinekora locks? anyone see how divine prices fluctuates within temp leagues? that all happens with poe1's current system that has friction.

it BARELY slowed down any inflation/manipulation. if anything the net result is just people hating POE's trading.

also, if inflation was the main concern, thats why we have temp leagues. fresh economy restart.

temp leagues solve inflation too well tbh. sometimes its better for me to actually jump in a temp league, farm up and bring my riches back to standard. a lot of timeless jewels that are worth a buttload of divines are sold at 1-10 divs during a temp league.

the boomers wanting to keep trade as is are just grumpy people who just want the game to be hard for everyone else coz that the experience they went thru.

i doubt GGG will change POE1 to have instant trade as it is kind of "poe1's identity" at this point.

also how GGG implemented trade is one thing i find interesting. POE is an evolution of D2. where GGG innovated the fuck out of the genre. it modernized the genre a huge lot and set the standards of how good diablo clones should be like and was even better than d3. yet GGG refused to innovate their trading system and adopted the same trade system that d1/d2 had.

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Silverpelt wrote:

People complaining that bots will be the one benefiting from instant buyout don't realize that bot are already using instant buyouts with live search feature. So, that argument is pretty much dead.

if i (50+) had this weird way of tackling issues by giving up, i wouldn't be here cause i'm dead in 20 years anyway.

if changes are making things worse, it's better to remove the reasons they are bad: trading is already too easy and the live search feature + the trading api are a huge part of the problem.

Ehh one thing to point out about that whole "buy everything to sell at higher price" have one hole...

It plain dont work when theres constant influx of the stuff in question. You cant just buy every divine and control the div/chaos rate this way simply because new divines will replace the ones you bough

Divines are rare but not THAT rare, even if someone do get all the 40k-ish divines on sale, most players have divines stashed, if someone buy en masse and caused the price to rise, that would cause more peole to try to cash on the rise and put MORE divines on sale, that would effectively replace the divines bough and reset the market. Provoking a price increase on a product that have constant influx of new goods is extremely hard, and managing to bank on that increase even if they manage to make it happen is next to impossible because the market resets as new stuff replace the bought stuff(people will not want to buy your inflated divines before the cash-in window closes)

The only item you MAY control are mirrors, that do have that low drop rates and are replaced very slowly. But mirrors are sort of irrelevant since less than 1% of the players that play maps dwell on those

The one item you realistically could control are legacy stuff on standard because those ARE irreplaceable, you CAN buy every 1k kaom and control the price, but that kind of already happens even without buyouts

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feike wrote:

Ehh one thing to point out about that whole "buy everything to sell at higher price" have one hole...

It plain dont work when theres constant influx of the stuff in question. You cant just buy every divine and control the div/chaos rate this way simply because new divines will replace the ones you bough

Divines are rare but not THAT rare, even if someone do get all the 40k-ish divines on sale, most players have divines stashed, if someone buy en masse and caused the price to rise, that would cause more peole to try to cash on the rise and put MORE divines on sale, that would effectively replace the divines bough and reset the market. Provoking a price increase on a product that have constant influx of new goods is extremely hard, and managing to bank on that increase even if they manage to make it happen is next to impossible because the market resets as new stuff replace the bought stuff(people will not want to buy your inflated divines before the cash-in window closes)

The only item you MAY control are mirrors, that do have that low drop rates and are replaced very slowly. But mirrors are sort of irrelevant since less than 1% of the players that play maps dwell on those

The one item you realistically could control are legacy stuff on standard because those ARE irreplaceable, you CAN buy every 1k kaom and control the price, but that kind of already happens even without buyouts

It is working in other games already, so it will work in PoE too. There are other items in between of mirror and divine, like Hinekora Locks - and those were monopolized in past already - it will be just easier now.

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Nomancs wrote:

It is working in other games already, so it will work in PoE too. There are other items in between of mirror and divine, like Hinekora Locks - and those were monopolized in past already - it will be just easier now.

Controling a handfull of T0 stuff is not enough to break the game and if you ask me, not even enough to justify keeping trade attrition

People will just learn to play without magebloods, hinekora is completely a luxury, crafters were gambling with annuls before hinekora was introduced

Arent people always talking about how you dont need tier 0 to play? Adapt your play? Well...

Also, theres a limit on how you can increase price before it goes into "not worth it" territory. If magebloods increased to half mirror prices, i would simply not bother(and belt-crafting would return to make sense, wich would even be healthy for the game)

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feike wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

It is working in other games already, so it will work in PoE too. There are other items in between of mirror and divine, like Hinekora Locks - and those were monopolized in past already - it will be just easier now.

Controling a handfull of T0 stuff is not enough to break the game and if you ask me, not even enough to justify keeping trade attrition

People will just learn to play without magebloods, hinekora is completely a luxury, crafters were gambling with annuls before hinekora was introduced

Arent people always talking about how you dont need tier 0 to play? Adapt your play? Well...

Also, theres a limit on how you can increase price before it goes into "not worth it" territory. If magebloods increased to half mirror prices, i would simply not bother(and belt-crafting would return to make sense, wich would even be healthy for the game)

You may not buy, others will. Worked with Hinekora Locks, and some other rarer currency/items (I remember when someone tried to scam me with a barter offer on league start - my 6L leg for some legendary ring, useless/worthless but t1, so not many on market - ofc price was manipulated). You may not care, but people will run to forum to rage/cry and blame PoE, because of 1% or some other group controlling something. PoE2 can be design around instant trade, but I doubt PoE 1 could without nerfing drop rates to the ground and causing massive hysteria.

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Nomancs wrote:

You may not buy, others will. Worked with Hinekora Locks, and some other rarer currency/items (I remember when someone tried to scam me with a barter offer on league start - my 6L leg for some legendary ring, useless/worthless but t1, so not many on market - ofc price was manipulated). You may not care, but people will run to forum to rage/cry and blame PoE, because of 1% or some other group controlling something. PoE2 can be design around instant trade, but I doubt PoE 1 could without nerfing drop rates to the ground and causing massive hysteria.

That argument works both ways

You may not care about trade attrition but others care. Deeply. Some enough to tunnel themselves into SSF because they cant stand it

You may think trade attrition is good and having a tiny amount of items controled is terrible, but others disagree

But im quite sure the amount of people that would deeply be bothered by having mirrors, hinekoras and magebloods be put farter up in the price range are much less numerous than the amount of people that would take that price increase on stuff they likely dont even care about if that means they have a less insufferable trade system and see it as a great thing. And so it seems GGG is looking at it the same way

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feike wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

You may not buy, others will. Worked with Hinekora Locks, and some other rarer currency/items (I remember when someone tried to scam me with a barter offer on league start - my 6L leg for some legendary ring, useless/worthless but t1, so not many on market - ofc price was manipulated). You may not care, but people will run to forum to rage/cry and blame PoE, because of 1% or some other group controlling something. PoE2 can be design around instant trade, but I doubt PoE 1 could without nerfing drop rates to the ground and causing massive hysteria.

That argument works both ways

You may not care about trade attrition but others care. Deeply. Some enough to tunnel themselves into SSF because they cant stand it

You may think trade attrition is good and having a tiny amount of items controled is terrible, but others disagree

But im quite sure the amount of people that would deeply be bothered by having mirrors, hinekoras and magebloods be put farter up in the price range are much less numerous than the amount of people that would take that price increase on stuff they likely dont even care about if that means they have a less insufferable trade system and see it as a great thing. And so it seems GGG is looking at it the same way

I'm neither of those, I'm just a person that can grab the opportunity in any system, so I'm not bothered by PoE2 instant trade (especially that I would have to test it first, and I always say that unreleased games can be anything or nothing, everything can be changed before release - no preorders, not that it matters for PoE2). PoE1 on the other hand is not designed for instant trade without major changes to loot, but GGG already describe it in trade manifesto.

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Nomancs wrote:

I'm neither of those, I'm just a person that can grab the opportunity in any system, so I'm not bothered by PoE2 instant trade (especially that I would have to test it first, and I always say that unreleased games can be anything or nothing, everything can be changed before release - no preorders, not that it matters for PoE2). PoE1 on the other hand is not designed for instant trade without major changes to loot, but GGG already describe it in trade manifesto.

Well, i guess ill wish you luck into putting into action that plan to buy everything, assuming you care. I think i dellivered my point that it wont work outside stuff like mirrors and hinekoras(that is... stuff that basically nobody bothers with, im fairly sure the amount of people that really works with hinekoras are even smaller than the pool of people with mirrors. The other thing that i could maybe see being controlled is mageblood but that item... well i think it was a mistake, an item that has a freaking 40% global usage on ninja is retard design at its finest)

But please, dont bother with that manifesto... its ancient, dated and even when it was new, people were calling BS on the correlation of drop rate and trade attrition, loooong before we had bonkers drop rate in leagues like sentinel and affliction