The Self Found League

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

You and many others feel that a SFL is a sufficient solution to X, Y, and Z problems. I am not opposed to a SFL. However, I would not join one if it was permanent and never able to feed into the Standard League. I don't want to see the PoE economy fragmented further. You don't create new economies to fix old ones. You fix the old ones which allows future economies to be better prepared.

You are likely correct that no solution can satisfy everybody, not for a lack of the solution being effective, but for the fact that people will always find something to complain about. There will always be those high-tier players who absolutely dominate lower tier players in terms of play time, fully exploiting game mechanics, using 3rd party interactions, and so on.

I think the key is to ignore these top-tier players. DO NOT let their over-powered ridiculousness bother you or make you feel that you or your character(s) are somehow inferior. Just think to yourself, "I am far less of a loser-nerd than these try-hard douche-bag exploiters." And heck, if you can't beat em', join em', if you just can't resist

You misunderstand this entire thread if you think it's about jealousy of top-tier players. Nobody cares what the no-lifers do with their time.

"

Vakirauta wrote:

Spoiler

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

You and many others feel that a SFL is a sufficient solution to X, Y, and Z problems. I am not opposed to a SFL. However, I would not join one if it was permanent and never able to feed into the Standard League. I don't want to see the PoE economy fragmented further. You don't create new economies to fix old ones. You fix the old ones which allows future economies to be better prepared.

There is no economy in SFL. And the people who wants to play in a SFL or has been playing self-found has never been in the economy you're talking about.

-No economy in SFL sounds lame and overly restrictive, if it is permanent.

-I "has" been playing self-found and "has" always been in the Standard League economy (if that is "the economy you're talking about").

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

-No economy in SFL sounds lame and overly restrictive, if it is permanent.

-I "has" been playing self-found and "has" always been in the Standard League economy (if that is "the economy you're talking about").

Why do you keep talking about SFL as if players are going to be black-bagged and forced into joining it? It's not overly restrictive if people want and choose to play it.

"

emtwo wrote:

You misunderstand this entire thread if you think it's about jealousy of top-tier players. Nobody cares what the no-lifers do with their time.

"

Kellog wrote:

What does the economy matter if you've truly been plying self-found? The only value items have, when playing self-found, is their use in crafting.

Precisely, and any exile can negate the economy by simply not participating in it. So, is a new SFL really necessary?

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

"

Vakirauta wrote:

Spoiler

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

You and many others feel that a SFL is a sufficient solution to X, Y, and Z problems. I am not opposed to a SFL. However, I would not join one if it was permanent and never able to feed into the Standard League. I don't want to see the PoE economy fragmented further. You don't create new economies to fix old ones. You fix the old ones which allows future economies to be better prepared.

There is no economy in SFL. And the people who wants to play in a SFL or has been playing self-found has never been in the economy you're talking about.

-No economy in SFL sounds lame and overly restrictive, if it is permanent.

-I "has" been playing self-found and "has" always been in the Standard League economy (if that is "the economy you're talking about").

What does the economy matter if you've truly been plying self-found? The only value items have, when playing self-found, is their use in crafting.

"

emtwo wrote:

"

Thaelyn wrote:

There is ample room for both play styles to coexist and thrive within Path of Exile.

Not currently. Currently, it is trade or GTFO.

"

Thaelyn wrote:

It doesn't need to be a one or the other proposition.

No it doesn't, though it already is. Nobody is proposing a mandatory Self-Found League. Creating SFL does not create a one-or-the-other situation.

"

Thaelyn wrote:

This suggestion right now poses, in my opinion, to [sic] great a risk of swinging the pendulum from one extreme to the other. You seem to clearly disagree and that's cool.

There is no reason to believe it poses any risk, except for the fact that anything could potentially happen. We also shouldn't play PoE at all then, because that poses a small risk of creating a wildfire in the Himalayas via the "butterfly effect" theory.

"

Thaelyn wrote:

Just please don't mistake what I'm saying here. It is not my position that changes to promote self found take a back seat to making sure traders are happy. My position is that it's not right to kill one in order to get the other.

No, it's not right to kill one in order to get the other. Luckily, nobody is proposing that.

Should we remove the HC League then, since by your logic it has clearly utterly destroyed Standard League and ruined the game for thousands of people by the mere fact of its existence?

I'm done here. You seem bound and determined to attribute meanings to my words that aren't there. I've tried communicating with you but you appear to be more interested in seeing what you want or expect me to be saying and less in seeing what I've actually said.

Good day. I hope you find what you're looking for.

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

"

emtwo wrote:

You misunderstand this entire thread if you think it's about jealousy of top-tier players. Nobody cares what the no-lifers do with their time.

-Then please elaborate on what it is that a Self Found League might solve again? I obviously am missing the point.

-Binary trade ON trade OFF, big difference to gameplay? Not f*cking really. You can self found all day in Hardcore and Standard Leagues.

The game is currently heavily oriented towards trading. For those who'd prefer to spend their time playing an arpg rather than participating in a trading simulation, there should be a meaningful choice.

"

-If it is about the 'achievement' of winning without trading, then grow some balls and f*cking win without trading, like many exiles have already done.

I think you'll find that a lot of self-found players don't gives a rats arse about "winning" at least in the sense you seem to mean.

"

-If it is about drop rates, drop rates exist in every League, why should GGG create a league w/ modified drop rates without first considering the drop rates of existing leagues?

As far as I remember, increased drop rates, are only one possible means to a self-found league. Personally and with hindsight, I'd prefer a better crafting solution.

"

-If it is about never, ever, ever, ever, being able to trade, it might as well be a single-player game client. Maybe people would party play, but is it worth the additional server resources?

It's actually about not wanting to trade, rather than not being able to trade. As far as server resources are concerned, this has been debunked time and time again. GGG have said numerous times, new leagues, paid and free, will be added to the game.

"

-If it is about ensuring that no-one gets an unfair advantage, good luck. Someone, somewhere, will f*cking exploit, somehow, someway.

Who cares about anyone else. There's no economy in a SFL, so there's not much to ruin.

"

-If it is about saying "Whoa, you self found all your gear? Kool, me too. Wanna go self find some more and not trade me that Perfect Alpha's Howl of yours that I REALLY WANT but WE CAN'T TRADE?" I question your sanity.

Each to his own.

"

-What does SFL solve?? BRAAIINNZ

Why are you so opposed to a self-found league?

"

Thaelyn wrote:

I'm done here. You seem bound and determined to attribute meanings to my words that aren't there. I've tried communicating with you but you appear to be more interested in seeing what you want or expect me to be saying and less in seeing what I've actually said.

Good day. I hope you find what you're looking for.

I must admit to letting myself get frustrated with that last post. I apologize.

I'm not trying to attribute meanings to your words. I'm trying to understand why exactly you have this irrational (in my opinion) fear that implementing a SFL would utterly destroy the game for people playing Standard. There is no evidence for this, and the other leagues we've already seen actually show evidence that it does no such thing.

So I'm processing your statements and presenting them back to you in different words in order to clarify them. This is the basis of discussion. You have yet to explain why you think SFL would be negative, you only repeat that you do think that there is at least a small chance of it having a negative impact and that somehow this outweighs the clear benefits.

I just want to understand why you think there's even any risk of damage, and why you think the damage would be so great as to outweigh the benefits, and why you think that any change that comes with a small amount of risk is inherently not worth making (which is all changes).

@Kellog

What I am understanding from your post is:

-You think the game is currently very trade centric.
-You think players should have a meaningful choice between trade-simulator and playing an arpg.
-To you, a SFL is about not wanting to trade.

My thoughts:

-Is it trade centric if an exile does not engage in trade?
-Players can currently choose between trade-simulator and playing Path of Exile.
-Don't trade.
-No one is forcing you to engage in any trade-simulator.
-No one is forcing you to shop on forums.
-No one is forcing you to NOT play the ARPG that is Path of Exile and trade all the time.
-Play the game, or gtfo. You know?

"

Kellog wrote:

Why are you so opposed to a self-found league?

I have already extensively talked about this within this thread. I am not firmly opposed to a Self Found League. It all depends on the rules. My main opposition might be that any exile can self-impose a self-found journey through Wraeclast within any existing league (right?). Why in the f*ck should there be a separate league that simply enforces this rule? It has to be about fairness, right? Everyone has a fair-shot and gets their fair-share jargon? No one gets an unfair advantage over another. And what if, and holy sh*t the Gembling Queen might pluck you spine, you actually WANT TO TRADE at some point? What if a good friend has an item you REALLY want? Wtf, then? Have fun in SFL.

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

My main opposition might be that any exile can self-impose a self-found journey through Wraeclast within any existing league (right?). Why in the f*ck should there be a separate league that simply enforces this rule?

"

Perfect_Black wrote:

My main opposition might be that any exile can self-impose a hardcore journey through Wraeclast within any existing league (right?). Why in the f*ck should there be a separate league that simply enforces this rule?

You could apply this same exact argument to the Hardcore League, yet people love it and it wouldn't be the same game without it.

I've already said this in this thread, but I want to play Self-Found and I want to be able to play with other people who are Self-Found. I cannot do this without a Self-Found League. I want to play Self-Found multiplayer, not solo.

I don't care about fairness.

I don't care if drop rates are adjusted.

I don't care if someone else has better gear than me.

I just want to be able to play Self-Found with other people who also enjoy Self-Found, and be reasonably assured that those people are in fact Self-Found. That's it. This cannot happen without a league.