The Self Found League

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DijiGo wrote:

Why do you think that min/maxers would flock to a self-found league?

There would be no guarantee that you will ever see any of the sought after end game / build enabling uniques, and there would still be no guarantee that you will drop or even craft a BiS item.

You seem to be forgetting that most traders farm in order to get things worth trading away, then trade for things they need for their character. So they would be weighing their old farm+trade vs the new leagues' pure farm. It's not that hard at all to imagine droprate being increased enough that, instead of trading for things for their character, they just farm/make them directly instead. Only arbitrage experts — people who make profit from continual buy/sell, like stock market salesmen — would remain in the trading leagues in such a circumstance... and they'd find the only people to trade with are other arbitrage experts, leading to an even more cutthroat trading culture. It would be similar to the effect of loot options on Short Allocation; before, you'd run into many who wouldn't be super cutthroat about loot, but after everyone on SA is a superninja.

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DijiGo wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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DijiGo wrote:

Why do you think that min/maxers would flock to a self-found league?

There would be no guarantee that you will ever see any of the sought after end game / build enabling uniques, and there would still be no guarantee that you will drop or even craft a BiS item.

You seem to be forgetting that most traders farm in order to get things worth trading away, then trade for things they need for their character. So they would be weighing their old farm+trade vs the new leagues' pure farm. It's not that hard at all to imagine droprate being increased enough that, instead of trading for things for their character, they just farm/make them directly instead. Only arbitrage experts — people who make profit from continual buy/sell, like stock market salesmen — would remain in the trading leagues in such a circumstance... and they'd find the only people to trade with are other arbitrage experts, leading to an even more cutthroat trading culture. It would be similar to the effect of loot options on Short Allocation; before, you'd run into many who wouldn't be super cutthroat about loot, but after everyone on SA is a superninja.

I'm not forgetting anything, I am challenging your statement regarding min/maxers, not "most traders" whatever that means, unless you are implying they are one and the same.

I don't trade AT ALL, and have zero interest in it. Go and read the OP again.

Trading will always be the ONLY best way to min-max/defeat the RNG, unless GGG created such a broken league that Kaoms and the like were raining from the sky; however to even suggest such a thing is laughable.

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emtwo wrote:

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DijiGo wrote:

Trading will always be the ONLY best way to min-max/defeat the RNG, unless GGG created such a broken league that Kaoms and the like were raining from the sky; however to even suggest such a thing is laughable.

True story. Unless the drop rate of uniques/orbs was increased thousands of times, farming and trading would still get min/maxers the specific gear they need faster than playing self-found.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You have both adopted extremist mentalities that fail to see things in a proper context.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You have both adopted extremist mentalities that fail to see things in a proper context.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You have both adopted extremist mentalities that fail to see things in a proper context.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I don't see a tone of self-imposed masochism that would befit the "Self-Found League is underpowered" scenario, which is the only one of those two that doesn't ruin it for everyone;

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DijiGo wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

You have both adopted extremist mentalities that fail to see things in a proper context.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I don't see a tone of self-imposed masochism that would befit the "Self-Found League is underpowered" scenario, which is the only one of those two that doesn't ruin it for everyone;

Just...Stop

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emtwo wrote:

It's funny because Scrotie's actually a pretty intelligent guy. The problem is that he doesn't have an open mind, forms instantaneous knee-jerk reactions to things he doesn't like, and only then uses his intelligence in constant back-pedalling justifications for his poorly thought-out opinions.

In short, I don't think he really believes what he says and probably doesn't even really know what he believes, but he feels compelled to form an opinion regardless. He would make a damned good Republican political candidate.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

If this was completely without precedent, I'd agree with you. However, I find myself more dissatisfied with the loot system now than before, when we didn't have loot options; I know "satisfaction" isn't a precisely measurably quantity, but it is a measurement of some sort, so I know that decisions like these are something I should oppose. If anything, I wish I had opposed loot options more fiercely back when it was just an idea and not a reality. In that sense, this is definitely not a knee-jerk reaction; if I can take one lesson from that experience, it is to oppose segregating-type suggestions and advocate fixing systems instead of discarding them.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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emtwo wrote:

It's funny because Scrotie's actually a pretty intelligent guy. The problem is that he doesn't have an open mind, forms instantaneous knee-jerk reactions to things he doesn't like, and only then uses his intelligence in constant back-pedalling justifications for his poorly thought-out opinions.

In short, I don't think he really believes what he says and probably doesn't even really know what he believes, but he feels compelled to form an opinion regardless. He would make a damned good Republican political candidate.

If this was completely without precedent, I'd agree with you. However, I find myself more dissatisfied with the loot system now than before, when we didn't have loot options; I know "satisfaction" isn't a precisely measurably quantity, but it is a measurement of some sort, so I know that decisions like these are something I should oppose. If anything, I wish I had opposed loot options more fiercely back when it was just an idea and not a reality. In that sense, this is definitely not a knee-jerk reaction; if I can take one lesson from that experience, it is to oppose segregating-type suggestions and advocate fixing systems instead of discarding them.