Not sure if this was stated before but just disable trade window and implement the "dropping this item will destroy it" window for all zones not just towns. Then, in groups if people want to be nice they can choose not to pick up certain items that may be more class specific. No need to do anything complicated like instanced drops.
Yes this actually was stated before, but don't you think it isn't player-friendly at all?
Imagine: you and your friend in party, and there's rare ring or something valuable on the ground. You take it (because it was your loot for example) and whoa! it totally suits your friend's needs! And you can't just give it away - is it normal for you?
I think there's no need to kill trading, but to kill market. There's numerous ways:
1) limit trading to 1 deal per day for account
2) remove global/trade chat completely! Leave party/local chat. Make players trade only with those who's in the same inctance. Traders can't bring their information to wide range of people, other players are happy)
3) remove the possibility to link item in chat. If you want to demonstrate any item to your party - use trade window.
4) restrict trading in global chat, give players ability to right-click each other and press "He's trying to trade!" - with read-only in global chat for day or so.
5) restrict currency items for trading or throwing to the ground, with "destroy or keep?" dialog for them EVERYWHERE. It almost kills trading imo))
Suggestions I support:
Brand new, without flaws, set mechanic: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/117837
2) remove global/trade chat completely! Leave party/local chat. Make players trade only with those who's in the same inctance. Traders can't bring their information to wide range of people, other players are happy)
3) remove the possibility to link item in chat. If you want to demonstrate any item to your party - use trade window.
4) restrict trading in global chat, give players ability to right-click each other and press "He's trying to trade!" - with read-only in global chat for day or so.
5) restrict currency items for trading or throwing to the ground, with "destroy or keep?" dialog for them EVERYWHERE. It almost kills trading imo))
This will only promote people using forums to advertise items for trade, this will only make trading annoying, not make characters "self found".
And no I dont see anything wrong with the example you gave of a ring. If someone else gets an item and gives it to me because he is a friend or because I gave him orbs, either way, I am not "self found" anymore.
For as large as this thread has gotten, and for all the positive feedback, I'm surprised a GGG dev hasn't commented yet.
Most likely because they're on the fence; staff tend to post when they've made some kind of decision. I'm still hoping they decide against this, but I'd settle for never making their mind up... ever.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 25, 2013, 8:44:28 PM
I really like this idea and would love to see it implemented. However, I often level chars and do runs, etc... with a coworker. We share gear and low currency. If he's playing a caster and I find a wand that's an upgrade for him that my melee char doesn't need, I'll give it too him. If I'm out of chroms and just found a great upgrade that needs colors rerolled, he'll give me a few.
I've been trying to think of a way to allow limited gear sharing while eliminating the trading economy. What I've come up with is having a trade list of 3-5* other accounts that you can trade with per account. It would be permanent, so those 3-5 accounts would be the only ones that you could ever swap things between. I feel like this would allow players to add their regular playing partners without generating a trade economy. Even if someone had a Kaom's for trade, would they really want to take up a permanent slot to do a one time trade?
This is a perfect example of why the Self-Found League should not exist; instead, self-found in the leagues we have should be fixed, so that every league is a self-found league, and a trading league too.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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Courageous wrote:
A Self Found / Crafting league is only viable if there is no trading at all. And if removing trading from Standard is what we're discussing, I'm not fine with that, either: it would ruin the play experience of too many (masochistic?) players who like trading.
You're not getting it. The core issue isn't drop rates; the inability to have reasonable drop rates without destroying trading is a symptom. The cause is a faulty trading system. The fault in the trading system is the existence of universally utilitarian items, which we call "currency." A proper ARPG economy is based on currencies that are not universally utilitarian.
This is not just a solution for self-found. Overpowered effects in ARPGs, whether they are items, skills, or a trading system, all work to diminish enjoyment for both the haves and the have-nots. For the have-nots, it's the frustration of pursuing enjoyment and losing out on in-game reward; for the haves, it's the frustration of pursuing in-game reward and losing out on enjoyment.
Here's what I propose, instead of adding new leagues to compete with the current ones:
Make orbs untradeable (and thus no longer "currency"). This works out naturally, since players who want to "trade" their orbs can use them on gear, and then "trade" the now-improved gear.
Rework the map affix system to make them much more build-specific. Example affixes would be "monsters have 100% cold resistance," "monster attacks cannot be evaded," "monsters deal additional chaos damage," and "monsters reflect physical damage." No universally utilitarian map affixes would remain; the idea here is to prevent magic maps from becoming the new universal currency.
Give all maps intrinsic mods so as to make them much more build-specific, using much the same logic as the affix system. This would make even white maps build-specific, and thus not universally utilitarian.
Give the affix system for gear a similar, but less exhaustive, overhaul. The major feature here would be either the removal or severe nerfing of the IIR and IIQ rare affixes (which are hugely universally utilitarian).
Drastically increase drop rates.
Provide official forum and in-game tools to better facilitate trading, stealing the thunder from third-party sites such as POExplorer.com.
This would lead to a much more sane barter economy that would be more fun for everyone. There would almost definitely still be some established currency (Diablo 2 had its Stones of Jordan, then high runes), but there would be far more personal attachment to said tradeables and much more subjective evaluation involved.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
What you are proposing here is not the ultimate endpoint, except in the way that giving up completely on a core mechanic is an end (defeat, via surrender). What you are proposing here is forging a schism between PoE with trading and PoE without trading, while leaving PoE with trading to rot; you care not one iota about anyone but yourself and your little band of separatists, at least as far as this suggestion goes. You justify this to yourself by saying that it doesn't matter what I suggest, trading is still trading and thus wrong by definition; you say no matter what modifications are made, the system will degenerate into the shit we have now. This is a falsehood; there are real things we can suggest and GGG can adopt to make the situation better for everyone, not just your separatists. Just like with the loot options bullshit, if we allow separatism here, the real underlying issues will never get fixed because everyone who would complain about them would be told "piss off, go play some other mode." The end result would be virtually as if one of the two modes didn't exist; my guess would be that only masochists and tycoon wanna-bes would stick in the trading leagues, and virtually everyone would enjoy your little creation. The end result of this suggestion is the near extinction of ALL trading in Path of Exile. And THAT is the final port of call for the ship of Captain Courageous. It's not a place I want to go.
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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Thaelyn wrote:
The people who want to play there are not part of the economies that exist in other leagues right now. They don't participate in the economy. The economy can't lose something it never had.
Self found league would have minimal impact on other league economies because as far as those economies are concerned, those of us asking for this don't exist.
But it's not about who wants to play, it's about who would want to play. These are very different concepts. And when you toss in an increased drop rate, forcing players to make a choice whether they like trading more than farming or vice versa, you'd find far more than just the advocates here moving over. Much like the stupid loot options system, what you'd find is almost everyone picking the same option, and a bunch of disgruntled traders because there isn't anyone left for them except fellow arbitrage aficionados.
This suggestion is horrible, because it would functionally remove trading from all of PoE, and anyone who tried to voice an objection to it after-the-fact would be brushed off with the traditional and shitty "it's optional" argument.
TLDR: I very much dislike the suggestion of a Self-Found League; it would very likely ruin the game.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Jul 26, 2013, 3:03:38 AM
I love this game, really! But I don't want to play a trading simulator game. It's just boring. And this is why D3 was not fun at the end.
Here is the idea : create a new league for people who want to play SELF FOUND. No trading (or only for items dropped while in a party with friends). And of course, a drop rate balanced for this mode.
TLDR: I very much dislike the suggestion of a Self-Found League; it would very likely ruin the game.
I guess, that you mean, ruin it for you. Because it is already ruined for me and many others by trading.
No, I really mean it would ruin it for everyone. This suggestion is an amputation, not a cure.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
TLDR: I very much dislike the suggestion of a Self-Found League; it would very likely ruin the game.
I guess, that you mean, ruin it for you. Because it is already ruined for me and many others by trading.
No, I really mean it would ruin it for everyone. This suggestion is an amputation, not a cure.
This is a very restricted vision. Many people just dont like trading no matter what the implementation is and just want to slowly power-up theyr character on theyr own (after all this is what the game is about).
Trading is a necessity for a lot of people and nothing else
