The Self Found League

I would love this as well. Right now the drop rates are tuned so incredibly low to protect the economy and getting better items by trading is not fun compared to finding them yourself.

Just make it possible to drop items for 5 minutes after they drop so you can play with friends and not have to worry about accidentally picking up something.

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Bura wrote:

I would love this as well. Right now the drop rates are tuned so incredibly low to protect the economy and getting better items by trading is not fun compared to finding them yourself.

Well said!

This is the first aRPG where I can't progress by finding what I need on my own. I've never played a game where I've been forced into buying or trading. But there is no choice really. Crafting doesn't work because you need hundreds and hundreds of Orbs just to get a halfway decent number of Linked sockets of the right colours. That means you're doing nothing but farming for Orbs instead of playing the content, which is rather boring. So what choice do you have? None. Buy or trade. And that takes half the fun out of playing the game. I want to find it or earn it by beating bosses.

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Courageous wrote:

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Making solo play only viable in a particular league is a chicken-shit move that neglects the responsibility to make solo play viable in all leagues. Every league should be Self-Found League, while also being Trading League, because the two should be somewhat close to balanced.

You are mistaken. Self Found League is not about solo play. COOP is fully welcome in Self Found League.

I meant self-found play; I was merely using the wrong term. Sorry about that, but the point still stands: making self-found only viable in a particular league is still a chicken-shit move.

If you really want "self found"... ain't it easier to just not trade to anyone? Or is it about E-peen factor to showoff your "self found" items?

Anyway not saying it's bad or anthing. But I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to split the intire player base into 20 different realms/settings.

Imo it's better to just have 1 realm with different options.

agreed, this would make for a much better permanent league

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tr4nznrg wrote:

If you really want "self found"... ain't it easier to just not trade to anyone? Or is it about E-peen factor to showoff your "self found" items?

Anyway not saying it's bad or anthing. But I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to split the intire player base into 20 different realms/settings.

Imo it's better to just have 1 realm with different options.

Its my understanding that the complaint is that the droprates and other factors are built around the economy and the preservation of the economy.
This is a simplified explanation but I think thats mostly it.

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OssanTensa wrote:

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tr4nznrg wrote:

If you really want "self found"... ain't it easier to just not trade to anyone? Or is it about E-peen factor to showoff your "self found" items?

Anyway not saying it's bad or anthing. But I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to split the intire player base into 20 different realms/settings.

Imo it's better to just have 1 realm with different options.

Its my understanding that the complaint is that the droprates and other factors are built around the economy and the preservation of the economy.
This is a simplified explanation but I think thats mostly it.

Thats pretty much the point of the self found league. The problem I see as a few others have pointed out is that this would become popular enough for the common softcore player to turn regular league into a ghost town. This would be bad for GGG in the long run as many people would quit after they "found" everything. There wouldn't be much difficulty for them and they would have no reason to keep playing over the long run.

Endgame ARPG is all about the item treadmill and keeping players interested long enough to stay on it. PoE with its unique currency/crafting system is so far doing a good job. We just need more endgame content to keep us interested enough. The idea of farming 20 levels through content 8-10 levels lower than you are gets old. If the drop rates were to high such as a self found league would require people would quit prolly right after beating Merci.

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Bishop120 wrote:

Thats pretty much the point of the self found league. The problem I see as a few others have pointed out is that this would become popular enough for the common softcore player to turn regular league into a ghost town. This would be bad for GGG in the long run as many people would quit after they "found" everything. There wouldn't be much difficulty for them and they would have no reason to keep playing over the long run.

One would need to take care to not increase the drops/crafting so high that this happens. Remember that in SFL, you can't just go buy a Lioneye's or a Kaom's, even if you have good items or cash. It's still controlled by chance only. Meaning that it will take quite a while before you find an item you are expressly looking for.

Also, if you are right that SFL was so popular that Standard became a ghost town, then what you are saying is that you believe that the undiscovered truth of ARPGs is people don't really like ecomomies after all. If that's the case (and I'm not saying it is), we're all better off knowing that and playing that way.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I meant self-found play; I was merely using the wrong term. Sorry about that, but the point still stands: making self-found only viable in a particular league is still a chicken-shit move.

Unfortunately, with a change of nuance, it becomes tautologically true that self found play style is comparatively worse to the trading play style. I.e., if you improved drops, crafting, or what not to the present rate of item acquisition via trading, trading would only accelerate that much more.

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Courageous wrote:

Unfortunately, with a change of nuance, it becomes tautologically true that self found play style is comparatively worse to the trading play style. I.e., if you improved drops, crafting, or what not to the present rate of item acquisition via trading, trading would only accelerate that much more.

This is not necessarily true, although it often is, and is now.

profit from trade =? (time spent arranging trade) * (farming drop rate)

That's the inequality (sorry for the =? sign); when the left is more than the right, trading is dominant, and the closer these two are to equal, the more balanced farming is compared to trading. Now considering that price to craft is always greater than price to purchase used, profit is essentially always positive; you can't count on negative values there. You are also correct that there is a positive correlation between farming drop rate and profit from trade; if you increase the drop rate, inflationary forces will increase the decrease the market value of most hand-me-down items, leading to an increase in profit. It's also very difficult to attack the amount of time spent arranging the trade; even when the game lacks comprehensive trading features, in the age of social media and web apps someone will just make a third-party site like poe.xys or POExplorer and help players automate their trading tasks that way.

So yes, it's a difficult nut to crack, but it's not a true tautology. I believe that drastic action — such as making all orbs account-bound and forcing players to rely on pseudo-currency rather than true currencies — would be a step in the right direction. After all, players could still trade their orbs indirectly, by using them on items and then trading the improved items.