The Self Found League

"

Courageous wrote:

"

If you can think of a better way to avoid people avoiding the no-trading rule of a self found league by dropping items on the floor to trade instead, I would like to hear it.

The only purpose whatsoever in allowing an item to be dropped/traded on a small time scale is to allow an item that was mistakenly picked in party FFA play (example, a map) to be politely returned. To this end, you could make the droppability/tradability time window of the item very small (<1 minute).

FFA has nothing to do in self found league. No item trading, no drop-trading, no multibox farming (you can't loot all loot with one character), no real money trading (100$ for joining my group and picking loot that I left intentionally on the ground). So there should be only instanced loot.

Please don't complicate it. It is "self found" not "group found".

"

So there should be only instanced loot.

This conflates two ideas into one. I don't think so. Some players enjoy FFA. That should be, as GGG is already hinting at, a configuration option when setting up play sessions in the league. The league should solely and only be about "self-found," not a bully pulpit for other issues.

IOW, you might be the one doing the complicating here. The league should be very simply about the league's main issue, and none else.

--C

"

Courageous wrote:

"

So there should be only instanced loot.

This conflates two ideas into one. I don't think so. Some players enjoy FFA. That should be, as GGG is already hinting at, a configuration option when setting up play sessions in the league. The league should solely and only be about "self-found," not a bully pulpit for other issues.

IOW, you might be the one doing the complicating here. The league should be very simply about the league's main issue, and none else.

--C

I've already said why. It is because multiboxing and real money trading. If FFA will be enabled, what would stop me from selling Kaom's Heart, that I left on the ground, through ebay for $?

"

If FFA will be enabled, what would stop me from selling Kaom's Heart, that I left on the ground, through ebay for $?

I cannot make sense of this question. Free for All Loot is a loot competition style, having to do with picking stuff up, not a trade mechanism. It has nothing to do with the ability to trade at all. Perhaps you should re-phrase what you have to say?

--C

Now that I think about it, I have to agree that having any amount of time where items dropped can be transferred between characters makes multiboxing extremely easy in a FFA-loot environment. Multiboxing is a huge reason why many people would go for a league like this, and I'm sure people would want to avoid having it in a self-found league.

I suppose RMT is also possible, though much less likely - as the trouble of keeping that instance open with the item(s) on the ground while looking for buyers may be too large.

"

Now that I think about it, I have to agree that having any amount of time where items dropped can be transferred between characters makes multiboxing extremely easy in a FFA-loot environment.

I take it you haven't multiboxed. Only the main account of a multi-boxer picks up loot, there is no need for transferring loot between alts.

Now it *is* true that making all loot instanced removes multi-boxing, but I don't see why we should care. Since there is no economy in self-found league, there is no need to worry about the economic impact of multi-boxing in the league: there is none.

--C

"

Courageous wrote:

"

If FFA will be enabled, what would stop me from selling Kaom's Heart, that I left on the ground, through ebay for $?

I cannot make sense of this question. Free for All Loot is a loot competition style, having to do with picking stuff up, not a trade mechanism. It has nothing to do with the ability to trade at all. Perhaps you should re-phrase what you have to say?

--C

Good item dropped -> Left it on the ground, stay in instance -> Sell it on ebay for $ -> buyer join my team and loot item

So here is real money trading in self found league by exploiting FFA mechanic. I'm sure, you know what I'm talking about. You just closing eyes and ignore it.

"

Good item dropped -> Left it on the ground, stay in instance -> Sell it on ebay for $ -> buyer join my team and loot item

Pretty obscure; the item is unidentified. The mechanism of sale is unwieldy. It's also highly risky. How do you prove you have the item before the person pays? You can't. Does not seem worthwhile, given the unlikelihood of closing the transaction on time, and undermines what is otherwise a perfectly valid play style in the league. IOW, such things might exist, but would have minimal statistical impact on the availability of items to players in the league, and therefore would not require that IIQ/IIR be lowered in order to control game progress.

If it were a real concern, you could make dropped items disappear off the ground in <N> minutes. Say 5. Although I don't think this is necessary, either.

Still, if the devs felt it was the right thing for the league, I'd be okay with it.

It's not necessary, however.

"

I'm sure, you know what I'm talking about. You just closing eyes and ignore it.

Resist the temptation to personalize things. You just became insulting to no purpose.

--C

"

Courageous wrote:

"

Now that I think about it, I have to agree that having any amount of time where items dropped can be transferred between characters makes multiboxing extremely easy in a FFA-loot environment.

I take it you haven't multiboxed. Only the main account of a multi-boxer picks up loot, there is no need for transferring loot between alts.

Now it *is* true that making all loot instanced removes multi-boxing, but I don't see why we should care. Since there is no economy in self-found league, there is no need to worry about the economic impact of multi-boxing in the league: there is none.

--C

No, I have never multiboxed, though I am aware of how it works. The problem is not that transferring loot is not required, rather that it still gives a huge advantage over players who do not multibox in terms of the league's ladder.

The main attraction to this league for many players is that they can play self-found with no trading, yet be on the same playing field as everybody else in their league's ladder.

If you allow people to get huge IIQ from multiboxing, it means the people who play the game as it was intended will be at a disadvantage on the rankings for that league.

If people didn't care about other players not being on the same playing field as them in this league, why would they not simply play self found in leagues that already exist, instead of showing support for the idea of a league such as this.

"

If you allow people to get huge IIQ from multiboxing, it means the people who play the game as it was intended will be at a disadvantage on the league ladder.

This is a fair comment. It applies to default, too. The argument could equally well be used as one for why FFA should be removed from default.

The problem is, there are plenty of players who actually like FFA. I don't see why the self found league should turn away FFA players. FFA is one of the founding designs of this game.

--C