Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.

I find myself at a weird spot in my mind with GGG and the way this launch has gone. I have been a member of this community for a long time. I do support the company, granted not nearly as much as many others here, but I do make it a point to do so.

I love Path of Exile. And I have always respected GGG. I even understand the business aspect of several decisions they have made, and choose to ignore it even when I do not like the way it affects myself or others. Yes, this does include giving queue priority to streamers.

My dilemma comes with the handling of the "banned" users, as well as the fact that GGG was not openly transparent about giving priority until after the fact. It makes perfect sense to give priority to your investment and ensure you are putting forth the image you are hoping to be paying for. However, many are looking at this as a single instance. I firmly believe that this priority has likely been ongoing for some time now.

Because of this belief, I also think that the company should have been open about it from the start. We all hear the cries and screams about streamer privilege's all the time. But I wonder how much we would be hearing about it if it was known from the time of sign up? Granted most are bitching about more than just server access, which there may or may not be truth behind, we don't know. But I am focusing on the server priority at the moment, because it does make sense, and should be easily understood, and I bet widely accepted if it had been done in a different manner. It is amazing what people will accept when it is constrained, openly stated, and clearly explained BEFORE IT HAPPENS.

The supposed bans are a different story entirely. When the very people that were given the priority access are using that time to abuse mechanics and openly insult the very viewers you are paying them to broadcast too, it is clear that the gamble on that specific streamer, and others, was a bad bet. The behaviors and comments displayed and spoken by these people were done while on the company dime the moment they were moved ahead of all others. If an actual staff employee were to have behaved in the same manner, I doubt they would have a job the next day. If a normal player had done the same, the actions would have been much more severe than a suspension. And let's not try to paint it any other way, these are not bans, they are suspensions.

I find myself at odds with this all because I have always been a supporter, whether I chose to display the badges or not. My wife is also a player, and even if I choose to not support them through my own account, I am still doing so on her end, from the same wallet.

Every time I find an aspect of all of this that I can understand and forgive, it appears there is another side of the coin that is revealed and returns my thought process back to square one.

For now, I think I will stop buying support packs on my behalf. However, as my wife does not share the same view, I will go ahead and get her what she wants, because well, she does things for me that GGG can never do :p

But I do hope that we see some sweeping changes, and outright clarity on future actions before they have a chance to become yet another issue. Path of Exile has been a daily escape for me for nearly a decade. I would like for that to continue, but honestly, we are getting much closer to the edge of that cliff from which there may be no return.

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SisterBlister wrote:

^ will you still make a point or was that all?

I have story for you:

Richard Branson in his youth witnessed "strange" situation in restaurent. Homeless man came and wanted food. He was kicked out. Meanwhile, there came rich man who paid nothing for food he ate and was respected and when he left stuff was smiling at him.

He decided to be rich.


ps: if you still dont get messages, give a try and read Nietzche Beyond Good and Evil. First 30 pages should be enough.

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CommAshen wrote:

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lightgearx wrote:

And still this game is FREE TO PLAY.

No. Please do not propogate this lie.

This game is kind of like games that have a free trial. You can make it into mapping for free, but to continue playing into the endgame, you need at bare minimum a currency tab and a handful of premium tabs.

One. Just one premium tab was enough for the trading purpose. Though, you'll find yourself in a pickle sooner if you're a hoarder like me. I resisted to buy anything else from Abyss League to Blight League, when I finally realized how naive I was to stay as a 'f2p' player.

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Rexeos wrote:

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SisterBlister wrote:

^ will you still make a point or was that all?

I have story for you:

Richard Branson in his youth witnessed "strange" situation in restaurent. Homeless man came and wanted food. He was kicked out. Meanwhile, there came rich man who paid nothing for food he ate and was respected and when he left stuff was smiling at him.

He decided to be rich.


ps: if you still dont get messages, give a try and read Nietzche Beyond Good and Evil. First 30 pages should be enough.

Or maybe the owner could stop being a [Removed by Support] toward the homeless guy. They could limit that by giving the leftovers to him or whatever.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Exiles should consider this incident, this event, like a very unnatural growth spurt. Impossible to ignore and frightening in its connotations.

I look at it as finally being caught doing what they've already been doing for several years. Having the infrastructure needed to facilitate this series of "mistakes" is the big tip-off. Seems to me there's another game beneath the surface.

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Sadaukar wrote:

1. PoE isn't a very pleasant game to watch if u don't play it urself. It's actually boring to watch a toon running around and killing random stuff if u don't know why or how.

2. I think if GGG wants to branch out to other communities, they shouldn't try to force the biggest streamers into PoE, rather than search for communities that understands games like PoE. Go for content creators of more old school titles, D2, D3, maybe OSRS or something.

3. Anyway, I think I have to agree with SisterBlister aswell.

This hits heart, but I think he's right.

1. I dont' think thats true. First, D3 streamers pulled in good numbers. Second, games like League of Legends pull good numbers and that game spends a lot of its time in a lot of games being boring for the first 15 minutes or so. League does have the draw of being in a constant and direct state of competitive PvP, so I know that's an imperfect comparison.

2. I agree with the broader disagreement over paying 'outsider' streamers - you have to put your product in front of an audience that hasn't played your game before. But a question I've asked that hasn't been answered is why pay outsider streamers to play on league launch (guaranteed to be rocky) when you could pay them to play in the month of May instead?. Of course none of the disagree-ers will answer, because the answer is that GGG wouldn't contract them for any other time than league start, because league start matters too much. And in admitting that, you have to admit that giving streamer privilege at league start is actually kind of a big deal.

After this post, the conversation of the thread also turned on what Bleu said which is that this is principle and the first unveiling of GGG giving an in-game advantage that equates to P2W. That brings up another question that I've asked in at least 3 threads that none of the 'this is fine' camp have answered to date: Once you cede the morality of giving streamers queue priority because it's 'good business', what advantage can you not justify giving them with the same reasoning? Once again I will never get an answer because the answer trashes their position.

But Bleu42s examples were ones I would have used had anyone ever answered the question. To give them a 5 hours head start is essentially to hand them a pile of exalts and character experience. Why not give streamers 10 exalts to start the league? Why not let them skip to level 70 on their subsequent league characters? Why not boost their drops a little bit? What advantage could possibly be objectionable, so long as we establish that it increases engagement metrics on Twitch?

3. Agree with your agree.

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innervation wrote:

1. I dont' think thats true. First, D3 streamers pulled in good numbers. Second, games like League of Legends pull good numbers and that game spends a lot of its time in a lot of games being boring for the first 15 minutes or so. League does have the draw of being in a constant and direct state of competitive PvP, so I know that's an imperfect comparison.

Sure they did, but I think in D3s case it's because so many ppl played D3 already so they knew what's going on to enjoy the stream. D3 was also one of the first games streamed on Twitch, at least that's when I started watching and discovering Twitch. (because I already played D3, I started watching Kungen play D3 for example)
With LoL on the other hand, u don't need to understand what's going on to follow the action and have fun watching someone killing another player or some group fights were one side comes out ahead.

I feel if u haven't played PoE or any ARPG ever u don't understand what's going on except "Character runs around smacking NPCs". That might look fun for 10 minutes, but let's be real... it doesn't really change, ever^^
Most of the times when I watch streamers do variety, for example Quin, and he switches back to PoE the Chat goes 50% resident sleeper. (although Quins chat is a bad example, but its for most other variety streamers aswell)
But we can agree to disagree on that one, we don't have proof for any argument I guess.

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Marthuk wrote:

This game (outside of races) isnt competitive and doesnt have a level playing field, when theres entire guilds dedicated to controlling trade market. (Yes, you can create competition for yourself everywhere, doesnt mean thats what this game is about. Id love to see your iteration of PoE Esports... )

Would you call the NFL non-competitive because 1 team won more than 33% of super bowls over a 17 year period?

Would you call the NBA non-competitive because a small handful of teams have won more than 50% of its historical championships?

The existence of 'organized guilds dominating the market' does not negate or invalidate competition. Especially since the game does not prohibit any group from banding together and doing exactly what they're doing.

Also in pro sports some teams 'tank' and intentionally try not to win. In the same vein, the existence of players in a PoE league who don't feel like they're in a competition doesn't make the landscape they are playing in non-competitive.

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Sadaukar wrote:

But we can agree to disagree on that one, we don't have proof for any argument I guess.

I think we'll have to. I would project that if you flip the sales for D3 and PoE you would see an identical flip in twitch view numbers. I believe people watch Twitch as much for the person as the game. That's why when someone like Kripp switches games he still retains a portion of his audience. Same for anyone else.

People often watch streamers of the games they themselves are playing, I don't think 'boring' applies in these cases b/c if you already play the game, you don't find the content boring, which means you won't find it boring when you watch a streamer - since they're playing the game you find exciting but (probably) at a higher level (Quinn69 exemption here).

Edit: is it any surprise that if you list twitch.tv right now (Browse, sort by viewers high to low) that its a list that roughly corresponds with how many 'copies' a game has sold (in the case of f2p, number of players with the game installed)?

Fortnite
GTA 5
LoL
Valorant
Dota 2
CS GO
CoD
Minecraft
Rocket League

People want to watch what they themselves play and within that space they will find a personality they enjoy 'hanging out with'. The other side of the coin are people who will follow a streamer loyally to any game they pick up and that's where the value is in GGG going after 'outsider' streamers. Because those people will pick up and play anything that the streamer does.

yeah, that's exactly what I said. It's boring to watch if u don't play it urself :)
Maybe I wrote it somewhat confusing, but u have to play PoE to enjoy the streams is what I meant, not that PoE is overall boring to watch and sure some ppl will watch any streamer play anything just for the personality, but that doesn't make those ppl interested in the game I think.

But from a viewers perspective, I don't really watch PoE streams for the gameplay, bcz most of the time its very repetitive. I'm watching bcz I wanna know what build he's playing, how a certain builds works or what items he's using ect. Without that I would imagine it would be a damn boring experience.