Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.

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Omnicide24 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Omnicide24 wrote:

The whales are not just people with money to blow but also people who don't prioritize their money in a healthy way. Among the high spenders the ones who spend a higher percentage of their relative income are probably more likely to stay out of a need to justify their sunk cost I'm guessing. You can't just whale all kinds of different games if that whaling actually hurts.

This assertion makes no sense to me?! If what you're trying to say is that no one could possibly have enough net worth to make giving tens of thousands of dollars to a game developer a reasonable decision, I'd just like to say that someone paid Jeff Bezos 28 million dollars for a ride to space.

I didn't assert what you think, I'm talking about how there are also whales who don't have a large amount of money but still spend way too much on games.

Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

Glad you guys gave it a look. There are bigger things happening but I will leave it to you to dig them up. Or don't. Nothing is certain yet. Google translate will come in handy.

Re buyer's remorse: it's a short term concept, usually following an impulse. I think I talked about this elsewhere on here but it was mostly to reinforce that whales typically don't have buyer's remorse in the typical sense that follows the purchase of, say, an overly expensive car or item of clothing. It takes us much longer to face the reality that what we paid for and what we got aren't 100% aligned. But that's down the track, and totally within expectations given the vicissitudes of game development.

Again, it is different when you arent aren't up buying power or gambling for it.

even if you buy top tier supporter pack its not that much money compared to other hobbies, the money i spend on poe is barely peanuts to what i spend going to clubs

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Aetherium wrote:

even if you buy top tier supporter pack its not that much money compared to other hobbies, the money i spend on poe is barely peanuts to what i spend going to clubs

Sure
But getting your own unique and divination card is way more than supporter packs and you know it

For some it actually is a lot of money though.

If buyers remorse is too narrow in it's definitions I'd like to expand on that. People tend to resist admitting they made a mistake, even to themselves. Reconciling your belief with reality can be difficult for humans it seems. If you spent a lot of money on a game (relative to your income of course) out of love for the game and a want to enjoy it fully... If you thought it was safe to collect all the things in a game that cost money because you assumed it was a safe investment in your enjoyment, and then that game starts becoming something you don't like...

Well you'll find the answer is different for everyone, but many would likely tell themselves a more favorable story than that it was a waste of money and time to move on since you don't really enjoy it anymore.

The type of player to put a larger percentage of their relative income into the game, and no longer enjoy the game, but not be able to admit that to themselves, well, it's obviously not representative of you guys or everyone but I would argue that the percentage of them in the player base is not zero.

I'm not sure if I had a point here anymore, but that's as clear as I can make what I was saying. Basically not all who spend do so comfortably, and those who are uncomfortable with their spending are likely to try and justify it to themselves rather than face the reality.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Re buyer's remorse: it's a short term concept

Really? Seems to have gone on for 10 years now.

"I spent $50,000 on POE expecting to have a say in the game direction and all I got was a lousy forum moderator privilege (which swiftly got revoked again)" - what a legacy to leave behind.

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

B
I just read an absolutely excellent article, a Long Read about games, GGG's owner and their country of origin on the Guardian, to which I shall not link due to CoC but if you are interested (and I think every gamer should be) search for "no ghouls guardian". Should be easily located. I am not encouraging any discussion of said article here. But I think it relates to the larger issue of devs having to dance through ethical battlefields if they want those "truckloads of money".

Thank you much, very interesting article.

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MarloStanfield wrote:

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Re buyer's remorse: it's a short term concept

Really? Seems to have gone on for 10 years now.

"I spent $50,000 on POE expecting to have a say in the game direction and all I got was a lousy forum moderator privilege (which swiftly got revoked again)" - what a legacy to leave behind.

I wont speak for anyone, but as with anything, in the end, nobody really gives a shit what other folks do with their money.

Maybe C wishes he had some of the money back maybe he dont.

And as far as legacy goes. I think the lead dev(s) selling out to China (especially being in NZ), for straight cash homie, and then proceeding down the loot box gamble hole, and sending the MTX art army on a quest for nickel and dime world domination is legacy enough for everyone in the PoE universe.

Friends: please check post history before responding earnestly to people who seem to have no good intentions and are merely stirring the pot with insinuated lies and ignorant falsehoods. Please. Trolls don't necessarily die when you ignore them but they either shift gears for attention or find easier pots to stir. I speak from extreme experience here. ;)

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I agree that the official definition of Buyers Remorse is a little too specific but I think there is a reason for that. And if you go read it for yourself you will likely see it: it speaks to a feeling of having done something that can bring regrets in the short term. Real, credible regrets. As I said, and maybe I'm just projecting, myself and every whale I've known felt none of that because the rush of becoming a whale for something so ostensibly selfless and well-meaning lasts quite a while. I do not and never will call supporting GGG a donation because it's not. But whaling for PoE is a transaction that involves some measure of intangible good will. You are overpaying and you know it, because there is the belief that it's going to something greater than you. Something about which you can say, I am proud to be a part of that, even if it's merely as a contributor of funds. It's a thing you love, and you are helping it grow and flourish. That feeling is really what GGG sold with early whaling of PoE. It wasn't a lie and it wasn't a con.

What it was was temporary and like any temporary rush you either repeat the action to feel it again or you find another stimulus. Many PoE whales did the latter, as one would expect. In fact I doubt there are too many of us left, mainly because GGG stopped selling the easy big packs a while ago. It's much more about volume than individual quantity now, which again is just good business.

Needless to say this process took years to happen and the threshold was and is different for all of us. Everyone favourite medal-laden general still gets 40/40 every league to my knowledge despite being the Ruler equivalent for another ARPG selling good will and promises of not being what came before. I think he's an exception to the rule (pun intended) as well just being an exceptional guy -- most of us hit our threshold already. But it always takes a while. It wouldn't be much of a threshold otherwise. :)

So if one got years of good feelings out of something, and one is aware of this and able to say it without qualifying it with "but it wasn't worth it", then I think the key component to buyers remorse is absent. That doubt and horror that one has made a terrible mistake. I didn't. Unless it really hurt my fellow whales IRL, they didn't either. When we talk it's always about how great things were, how awesome it felt to be part of it. A cynic might say that's just glossing over the reality or lying to ease the pain but the pain isn't ever about the purchase for us. It's always about what came long, long after it.

You might as well say someone who helped fund a local football club has "buyer's remorse" just because ten years after it broke ground they're upset its owners sold the thing to a foreign developer wanting to build a sports bar. That is how it feels. There is no remorse in that. The club was great for all that time. Well, most of it. Many many good times. But you know it can't last, so you make the best of it.

If there is more demand for a sports bar than a football club, so be it. So the kids grew up and moved from amateur athletic activity to professional voyeurism and social intoxication. It happens. All the time.

Some of you seemed surprised that GGG wasn't mentioned in a huge deep dive on Tencent and their role in game development and studio acquisition. That "it happens, all the time" is why. Compared to more famous, higher profile examples, PoE is itty bitty. It's just another game that needed to evolve from global but also domestic to domestic but also global. I think people struggle with how rational I can be about it, given my investment so to speak. Because in my place they would be bitter and angry and petty. I'm none of those. I'm just sad that this is the terminus of f2p sans p2w. Of course it couldn't work the way we early whales wanted it to work. Ridiculous. Of course Chris was learning Mandarin for years. It was his duty as Managing Director to make GGG as successful as possible, financially *and* ethically, since the latter is what they sold. There was never going to be a fully bloodless birth from GGG to (Other)GGG, and I still believe that it could have gone a lot worse. He could have taken a deal from Activision, for example.

Phew. Thumbs reaching their own threshold here. One day I'll turn the computer on to do something other than pay bills and write (this is not writing; this is speaking words to your face) but...eh, not yet.

Hope y'all had a lovely weekend. Was Father's day here. I arranged for a breakfast in bed delivery for mine with a slab of his favourite beer to chase it. Was Hella stressed the delivery wasn't going to get there on time. It was thankfully only 45 minutes late. Ah, 2021. It's Australian for "2020".

Lol. ^_^

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

I just read an absolutely excellent article, a Long Read about games, GGG's owner and their country of origin on the Guardian, to which I shall not link due to CoC but if you are interested (and I think every gamer should be) search for "no ghouls guardian". Should be easily located. I am not encouraging any discussion of said article here. But I think it relates to the larger issue of devs having to dance through ethical battlefields if they want those "truckloads of money".

I thought it was rather mediocre. It does tell me you are left leaning. I could comment about that said article. Since we aren't having any discussion of said article here, I leave it unsaid.

It isn't just GGG but the entire video game industry as a whole. My idea was that video games industry was more innocent and less profit driven in the past, It is becoming "better". More profitable, more profit driven, more dubious. Better for "them", not "us".