Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.
" I think this is what the majority (not all) defenders of this decision do not understand: Way back when this all started, GGG really was different and that is why we put up with all the bugs and still bought more supporter packs even after our hideouts were jumping with pets and we had more stash space than is mentally healthy. We wanted to support this company. But, just like the game changed to an ever faster and ultimately shallower play style to attract more players, the company also slowly changed to become ever more professional. That does entail misleading advertising stunts, catering to the rich and famous and all that. It is normal, which is why most businesses have to be good at what they do at their core or people wouldn't put up with their shady crap. So I'm 100% with you on being terribly disappointed. But here is where you wrong, Charan: " They do know their player base, it's you who no longer does. This will blow over. Because the player base has changed almost as much as the game and company have. I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of current players never knew how GGG felt so long ago. So now they judge it like any other company, and by that measure, they are doing all right. Not saints or anything, but also not as bad as some others. And so these players see no reason not to buy supporter packs if they like the shinies and enjoy the game. As to the cult/addict/whatever/... behaviour you and others mentioned: PoE is still quite niche, there are RPGs out there with a lot more appeal to people who just want a few hours of good time and couldn't imaginge paying for what PoE offers. So of course there is some pretty fierce tribalness in that "community", just like in those of very niche sports, hobbies or philosophies. I think it's time to give this a rest and move on. The people who remember the old GGG have left long ago or just no longer care enough to bother with such topics. They will also leave if PoE no longer plays well enough for them. So in a way we've become normal customers, no longer loyal supporters. And of course there are quite a few true followers who won't be shaked by anything GGG does, ever. If this topic is so close to your heart (and I can understand that&why it is), find a new startup to help and invest in both financially and emotionally. May your maps be bountiful, exile
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" This post is really spot-on. One of the results of GGG growing and becoming more corporate is that maintaining a personal relationship between the devs and original group of players became unfeasible a long time ago. I can understand why that hurts. But is having that kind of a relationship truly a prerequisite for playing and/or paying any game? Thats’s quite a standard. If that level of relationship is not really necessary to play a game - which it clearly isn’t for millions of gamers around the world, let alone tens of thousands of PoE players - then what basis is there for a boycott? Any attempt would never foster enough support to be meaningful, and I’m not sure what specific demands are being made of GGG in the first place. There are so many things much more wrong with the gaming industry than an awkward marketing decision in response to a (pretty bad) tech problem. Despite some players’ personal heartbreak over their relationship with GGG, this isn’t a sensible hill to die on. We're all in this leaky boat together, people. Last edited by demon9675 on Apr 24, 2021, 3:52:42 AM
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" Silly people. GGG is your typical video game company and POE is your typical video game. POE is just another product. There is nothing special. I am not as emotionally attached as some people are, POE is really just another video game. |
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" That's what strikes me the most tbh. I'm always amazed when I discover bigger streamers of other games that actually like to play PoE off stream. At the same time tho I ask myself, why don't they stream PoE then and I come to the realisation that they are just smart. They know what PoE is and they know their viewerbase. Doublelift or Asmongold for example both play PoE but they know their viewerbase would freak out if they'd stream it on their main channel. PoE isn't a very pleasant game to watch if u don't play it urself. It's actually boring to watch a toon running around and killing random stuff if u don't know why or how. So it's not in their best interest to stream it, nor would it be in the best interest for the game itself, bcz ppl would be bored by it instead of wanting to play it for themselves most of the time. I think if GGG wants to branch out to other communities, they shouldn't try to force the biggest streamers into PoE, rather than search for communities that understands games like PoE. Go for content creators of more old school titles, D2, D3, maybe OSRS or something. Anyway, I think I have to agree with SisterBlister aswell. " This hits heart, but I think he's right. Last edited by Sadaukar on Apr 24, 2021, 4:24:27 AM
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" No. Please do not propogate this lie. This game is kind of like games that have a free trial. You can make it into mapping for free, but to continue playing into the endgame, you need at bare minimum a currency tab and a handful of premium tabs. | |
" Of course SisterBlister is right -- when they quoted me, they sort of left out the bit where I concluded that GGG knows the player base very well, possibly better than they know themselves. GGG know how much they can and will now get away with. How many of their supporters never look at this forum, and wouldn't care even if they did. They know I'm not making even a shred of a difference here. But they also know that I've broken no rules (those who know what happened, know this too), and keeping this in view is pretty easy because I'm hardly the only one bumping it because...yknow, I am not alone-- gosh, if only they had a Reddit-style upvote/downvote system, eh? Maybe they'll get me on being 'obnoxious' or 'antagonistic' but if so it'll be in the vaguest sense. If that's what they need to tap to silence me, then...what I just said about me not making a difference wouldn't be so clear-cut, would it? But should we come to the day when the only person keeping this thread current is me...well, I may not. I may. As a certain exacerbating public figure likes to say, 'we'll see'. As for this being a hill to die on? Damn, folks. I'm already dead. I killed myself. Repeatedly. Haunting this hill is what follows. I saw the light and I went into it and then I saw the light and I went into it and then I saw----
Spoiler
Ironically, the hardest part of me doing this is resisting the urge to comment in, and thus bump, other GD threads. For once, they're not why I'm here.
https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable. Last edited by Foreverhappychan on Apr 24, 2021, 5:11:09 AM
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I think there's a lot of us having trouble articulating why exactly this league launch was such a gut punch.
Yes absolutely, in a vacuum it wasn't that big of a deal at all. Everyone whos' asking 'who was affected by streamers getting just a bit more gameplay at launch' is right to ask that, because the answer is really no one. But I guess the best way to put it is it's the implication. Nearly everyone has accepted that streamers get special treatment, such as free loot boxes. But that's outside the game. This is the first proof that inside the game they could absolutely have 'special treatment'. It's the same idea as having the game not 'pay to win'. We all want, and expect with poe, to have equal footing when playing the game. The factors that separate us would then be how much time and effort we want to put into the game, and that's it. Being able to just throw money at PoE (in terms of PTW) wouldn't feel fun to every other player, and watching players get overt advantages in game because GGG likes them more equally doesn't feel fun. Maybe there needs to be better examples of why some of us didn't like what happened; Mathematically it wouldn't hurt the economy in any measurable amount if GGG gave every streamer 3 exalts at the start of a league. But wouldn't that feel pretty bad to all of us who aren't streamers? Or, mathematically, it wouldn't ruin any economy or noticeably hurt any other players if GGG gave streamers a simple 10% quant bonus while playing. There's so few streamers that players wouldn't notice. But again, wouldn't that sour your gameplay if you're just another player? That's the point of being upset by this 'streamer prio'. In a vacuum it was nothing, but in whole it's implications (as well as GGG's silence on the issue) is very worrying. The point of playing a game like this is knowing you'll need to rely on your own skill and luck, just like everyone else. But you throw in special privilege for some and it feels like it taints the game as a whole. | |
"I think ultimately it boils down to a feeling of an established level of trust being broken not just by GGG but by streamers (even if only a couple actually deliberately took advantage of it). It also created a bit of a divide in the community, where there are now much more clearly defined groups of "privileged" and "not privileged". |
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" Thank you so much for capturing something I sort of circled but couldn't quite nail down. This is ALL about that vacuum and seeing past it, the so-called big picture. But I think one of the core factors to PoE is you play it in a vacuum -- it can be so demanding that it really doesn't leave much room for other games. For those of us who have escaped that vacuum, we can provide a perspective that allows a moment of clarity. A notion that...I dunno, the current idea of GGG 'normal' isn't normal at all. Changes like this are like growing -- day by day, you'll never notice it... Exiles should consider this incident, this event, like a very unnatural growth spurt. Impossible to ignore and frightening in its connotations. https://linktr.ee/wjameschan -- everything I've ever done worth talking about, and even that is debatable. Last edited by Foreverhappychan on Apr 24, 2021, 5:21:32 AM
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" Ah, I didn't mean to misquote you, sorry for making that impression. Hope you don't think this was intentional. I just extracted the parts which I felt embodied the spririt of your thread and why I think it is no longer quite applicable to PoE. Try this: Block out all you know of GGG, their history, the people working there, etc. For this thought experiment it's just an average-sized company making an ARPG to earn money. The game has some really great parts and some atrocious technical issues, it competes with the other big titles, just like the others. It business model is selling cosmetics and storage space for the loot-lust hamsters common in this genre. How would you judge their behaviour then? Is it better or worse than industry average? Would you get upset and call for a boycott or would you just silently ignore them and play something else? I think for the majority of PoE players, this is not a thought experiment, but the unremarkable reality. Your gripe is the loss of what GGG meant to you (and many of us who have experienced the early days of PoE). It is a true loss and cannot be argued away by anyone. But it is your (and to a lesser degree, my, our) personal loss and does not affect most others. Betrayal is like that, it is more hurtful than many "objectively" worse things, but it is always personal and won't be shared by more than a few other people. May your maps be bountiful, exile
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