Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

what do you have on your heads? whens the last time you had to worry about putting food on your table? how many families rely on you to keep them financially secure? how many supporters are relying on the calls you make every day to make good on their financial backing? whens the last time you made a mistake and regretted it?

come on guys, the mans a human being, hes not an infallible, unshakable monolith. cant we afford him any understanding?

How is this position tenable in any way? Where is the line at which they cannot do something (and get a pass from the community) with the justification of 'we think its best for the game?' I would assume criminality but when you bring up 'putting food on the table' now you can go even farther in excusing bad behavior, right up to and through Robin Hood criminality.

So what's the line? Or as long as they're sincere in their belief that something is good for the game they can push the button on anything?

What makes you happy about playing this game? What if they cut that in half for you and gave it to a streamer you've never heard of, or don't like? Its in your interest though, they assure you. Do you just shut up and accept it?

Can't wait for the 'old guard' to keep playing the game because god forbid they lose the prestige of being an old skool player who knows better than anyone else.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

no, because if you take the idea that theyre just evil people who only care about money then the conclusion is the same, that they only care about the player base and making them happy because the way they make this selfish evil money is entirely through making the player base happy.

Which player base are we talking about here? We have seen that Preferential treatment exist, Or some players are viewed as more valuable than others. GGG treating their player base differently. People love and supported the game get treated as unimportant or like second class citizen is what make them so upset. We are not the same "player base", if we aren't treated fairly and equally.

Evil is not the right word, they are self-serving. The player base should be mindful what GGG really are, not what they try to portray themselves to be.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

its like suggesting a shop only cares about customers coming in the door, they dont care about customers at the tills. of course they care, the only reason they want them to come in the door is to get them to the till.


think about it.




and you guys know all this, i know you all, youre good people, smart people, but youre not thinking straight.

You thinking we are moron now. If you are THE customer at the tills and saw some customers coming in the front door, the sales personnels are ignoring you and swarming, treating them like royalty and better than you, wouldn't you be upset?


Think about it. Isn't this what THE customer at the tills should care about? We are good people, smart people.

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innervation wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

what do you have on your heads? whens the last time you had to worry about putting food on your table? how many families rely on you to keep them financially secure? how many supporters are relying on the calls you make every day to make good on their financial backing? whens the last time you made a mistake and regretted it?

come on guys, the mans a human being, hes not an infallible, unshakable monolith. cant we afford him any understanding?

How is this position tenable in any way? Where is the line at which they cannot do something (and get a pass from the community) with the justification of 'we think its best for the game?' I would assume criminality but when you bring up 'putting food on the table' now you can go even farther in excusing bad behavior, right up to and through Robin Hood criminality.

So what's the line? Or as long as they're sincere in their belief that something is good for the game they can push the button on anything?

What makes you happy about playing this game? What if they cut that in half for you and gave it to a streamer you've never heard of, or don't like? Its in your interest though, they assure you. Do you just shut up and accept it?

im not excusing anything, it was a terrible decision and i instantly made a number of posts telling them it was a shit decision.

what this post was in response to directly was the idea that ggg trying to make money, and doing things to make money, is inherently immoral, out of order and a betrayal of us all. its not, at all.

they havent had a pass, ive not given them a pass, this entire thing has hurt them immeasurably.


if youve just read the last few pages of this thread then what you have missed is the posts i was responding to, because the person who made those posts has deleted them leaving only my responses. you would need to have seen the things being said in them to understand the specific context of what i was objecting to in them.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

im not excusing anything, it was a terrible decision and i instantly made a number of posts telling them it was a shit decision.

what this post was in response to directly was the idea that ggg trying to make money, and doing things to make money, is inherently immoral, out of order and a betrayal of us all. its not, at all.

they havent had a pass, ive not given them a pass, this entire thing has hurt them immeasurably.

I am trying to assess whether or not you are saying the number one priority for these companies is to make money. Morality is subjective. To not make money is immoral from these companies perspective. You are free to Sacrifice yourself to save GGG, that is not my burden.

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awesome999 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

no, because if you take the idea that theyre just evil people who only care about money then the conclusion is the same, that they only care about the player base and making them happy because the way they make this selfish evil money is entirely through making the player base happy.

Which player base are we talking about here? We have seen that Preferential treatment exist, Or some players are viewed as more valuable than others. GGG treating their player base differently. People love and supported the game get treated as unimportant or like second class citizen is what make them so upset. We are not the same "player base", if we aren't treated fairly and equally.

were talking about the masses, the 99.999% of players who sat in the queues because they provide 99.999% of the companies revenue.

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awesome999 wrote:

Evil is not the right word, they are self-serving. The player base should be mindful what GGG really are, not what they try to portray themselves to be.

what are you basing this on? you are suggesting they pretend to be a nice company that cares but really they are self serving and only care about themselves. ok, but stop for a minute, ive already explained this, ill explain it again because obviously u missed it...


if they are a nice company that cares then their main concern and care is keeping the 99% happy, because they are nice people who care.


if they are a self serving company... then their main concern and care is still keeping the 99% happy because 99% of the profits that they make comes from that 99% of players wallets and is only given when they are happy.



so what are you basing this idea that they are self serving on? the idea that they are not what they 'pretend' to be? because it cant be which players they seem to care about because if they are a nice company or a self serving one there is no difference in who they care about.


so why did they do something that put the 99% in a position of being second rate citizens in favour of a minority?... because they made a mistake. either way round it can only be a mistake because its a bad idea both mortally and financially. so drawing a conclusion about if their motives were moral or financial from it is impossible because its obviously a mistake either way.


you are not making that judgement based on facts and logic, its simply what you want to believe. the evidence doesnt suggest they are or are not what you claim.

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awesome999 wrote:

You thinking we are moron now.

no, but if i have to explain the same piece of blatantly obvious logic for the 100th time in this thread then, you know, questions might need to be asked.

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If you are THE customer at the tills and saw some customers coming in the front door, the sales personnels are ignoring you and swarming, treating them like royalty and better than you, wouldn't you be upset?

yes, of course, and when i saw the streamer queues i was very upset, just like everyone else including the streamers.

thats not the question you should be asking, the question is why would a company who are self serving and only in it for the money ignore and disrespect the people who are at the tills about to spend their money? the entire reason you want the customers in is to get them to the tills to get their money. so why would you do it?

you wouldnt. so why are you presuming based on them doing just that that it isnt a mistake and they are self serving? what they have done is exactly the opposite of what a self serving company would do.


youre thinking with your heart, not your head.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

what this post was in response to directly was the idea that ggg trying to make money, and doing things to make money, is inherently immoral, out of order and a betrayal of us all. its not, at all.

Well in the spirit of this thread I think it's perfectly within order to say that if someone feels like a 'second class player' they may be wise to treat the game in kind. That's reasonable reciprocity.

Part of that means acknowledging the good too and there were many many things the community has been asking for that came in this patch. When you find someone who can't name any, or brushes them off as too small to be meaningful you've surely found a scorned lover turned professional hater.

Find someone who is trying to downplay what happened Friday night and you've found a real white knight (as opposed to the boogeyknights perceived around every corner by a certain group of dissatisfied ex-players).

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

were talking about the masses, the 99.999% of players who sat in the queues because they provide 99.999% of the companies revenue.

You segregate the player base into segments and prioritize your resources and attention base on that. You are trying to lump them all into one whole mess when they are probably not.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

if they are a self serving company... then their main concern and care is still keeping the 99% happy because 99% of the profits that they make comes from that 99% of players wallets and is only given when they are happy.

They pick and choose which players they want to keep happy. Otherwise, There is no unhappy customers in POE. We're all happy, right? Unhappy customer is a myth.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

youre thinking with your heart, not your head.

What are these weird comments? We can't communicate with each other.

“Thinking” matters more than “caring”. They think the way they do because, time and time again, the market has shown that they are right — it really doesn’t matter. Does upsetting some customers matter? Only you think you are important as THE CUSTOMER.

It’s business. Upsetting some customers isn't as serious or important as people believe. That is GGG and big corporate thinking right there. Companies does it all the time, upsetting customers. Otherwise anti consumer practices and predatory business practices that seeks to extract money from consumers wouldn't exist.

...I see absolutely no evidence that anyone here or really anywhere has said that making money is inherently immoral. That is ludicrous.

As usual, it is all down to how and why, not merely what. I figured that was utterly obvious from the start. As I said later, I did not call for a boycott when GGG sold out to Tencent, because it was a sound business decision. I personally hated it but that is nowhere near tenable a reason to call for a general response. This is a whole other situation, one that directly connects GGG's hunger for money with outright discriminatory treatment of the their devoted player base in favour of the perceived elite.

That is immoral by GGG's own self-proclaimed standards. This is why they had to apologise. They knew. The whole time, they knew. They knew if the servers farted out theyd have to let the paid outsider streamer on anyway. And if they did that, they had to let more local ones on too. But only them.

Had the servers performed as expected, we would never have known the extent of the gamble or the lengths to which they would go, how brazenly they would reveal their unfair schism between players and influencers, to try to win it. That alone is pretty horrible...but add to the fact that their servers almost always explode on launch day and you have the added layer of what happened as something they were prepared to do.

Better to ask for forgiveness than permission, right? Especially when you you don't have to ask for permission...and the forgiveness is optional. They 'know' they 'own your soul' so to speak. And in knowing that, they didnt do this out of desperation but with calculated ruthlessness. "People will be pissed we did this but they will get over it. They always do..."

...Please don't be cool with that. I can word the same thing only so many ways.

If you don't want the streamer privilege to become the new normal, send the only message this money-obsessed company will feel. Boycott GGG.

Just yesterday I was thinking "what would Charan say about this?" and here you are, it's so good to read you again! :-)

Totally agree with you!

Nowadays I'm just an ex-exile, I stopped playing more than a year ago because I like to play a game that rewards me for playing instead of punishing me every 3 months…

What GGG did is unexcusable, they more than crossed a line here, but I must say I'm not so surprised: the direction the game took in the last years clearly showed who GGG cared for.

What I really REALLY still don't understand is how they always get free pass on every mistake from a big chunk of the community.
Do you realize they're not a couple of developers in a garage? They are a PROFESSIONAL GAMING COMPANY, how can they mess up EVERY TIME??
If you have a work and mess up as much as they do you really think you can keep your work (and customers)??

This is no more "a guy made a mistake but Chris gave his apologies so it's all ok", that could be acceptable the first... two, five, ten times??
They make mistakes every fucking league, every fucking three months!!
How is this overlooked by the community it's really beyond me.


I think many exiles should try playing other ARPGs: they could discover it really rewards them for playing and it will cost less than all that shiny MTXs and stash tabs!