The Multi-box Thread: How it ruins the game.

Imagine this:
There are foragers who search for food all day long. They happily have plenty of food to survive. They laugh at those who cant do what they do successfully. Claiming that they are dumb(rightfully so). Until...
One day they hear about others planting things in order to harvest them without as much effort as it takes to foraging.
The foragers place blame on the farmers uttering ridiculous things like 'farmers are ruining my foraging'. They do their best to come up with all kinds of illogical but influential reasons why farmers are hurting them.
Those who point out that foragers still have enough food to survive... are attacked.
Those who point out that farmers are not attacking the foragers... are attacked.
Those who dont agree that farmers are hurting the foragers ...are ... (you guessed it) attacked.
I see a pattern here.
I quote the great and wise Chain of Dark Castle MUD 'Its not enough to succeed, others must fail'. You see the foragers dont want to be the dumb ones. But rather than smarten up, they simply try to kill off those that are more intelligent. And they arent doing a very good job of that.

"

SkyCore wrote:

Imagine this:
There are foragers who search for food all day long. They happily have plenty of food to survive. Until...
One day they hear about others planting things in order to harvest them without as much effort as it takes to foraging.
The foragers place blame on the farmers uttering ridiculous things like 'farmers are ruining my foraging'. They do their best to come up with all kinds of illogical but influential reasons why farmers are hurting them.
Those who point out that foragers still have enough food to survive... are attacked.
Those who point out that farmers are not attacking the foragers... are attacked.
Those who dont agree that farmers are hurting the foragers ...are ... (you guessed it) attacked.
I see a pattern here.

imagine this:
someone drives up in a tractor and farms 100% faster than you.
They take all of their stuff to market and devalue the price of stuff.

the tractor is not included in the game.

still cheating.

"

Ultimace wrote:

you guys should stop bickering at each other, rather find a solution together to work out the problem.

having 30 pages of argueing if botting/mutliboxing is bad or not is pointless. if i were ggg id have closed this thread by now.


althou an offical respond to the mb issue would be kinda nice, op has it right that it does destroy the market.

Well, this is the problem with that.



> We say our piece.
> Multi's come in and defend their position, but with dirty tricks that don't actually address anything, but rather change the subject and all that jazz.
> We see these posts and want to ignore them. (At least me.) But then the thread sinks down to page 3 over night and will never be seen again, unless I bump it.
> Well, I don't wanna just post with "bump". That feels like spam. So I'll quote a guy and tell him the problem with what he's saying.
> He then comes in and once again redirects attention, etc etc etc.

> Repeat this for a week or two where I don't want the thread to die, and we get 30 pages of completely pointless back & forth's.

"

Cambob wrote:

"

SkyCore wrote:

Imagine this:
There are foragers who search for food all day long. They happily have plenty of food to survive. Until...
One day they hear about others planting things in order to harvest them without as much effort as it takes to foraging.
The foragers place blame on the farmers uttering ridiculous things like 'farmers are ruining my foraging'. They do their best to come up with all kinds of illogical but influential reasons why farmers are hurting them.
Those who point out that foragers still have enough food to survive... are attacked.
Those who point out that farmers are not attacking the foragers... are attacked.
Those who dont agree that farmers are hurting the foragers ...are ... (you guessed it) attacked.
I see a pattern here.

imagine this:
someone drives up in a tractor and farms 100% faster than you.
They take all of their stuff to market and devalue the price of stuff.

the tractor is not included in the game.

still cheating.

You completely missed the point.

A forager could be happy. It is just that he is jealous. Instead of only having what he needs, a farmer has a 100 times what he needs. And the unhappy forager wants that.
The person to blame for the foragers unhappiness is the FORAGER.

"

Cambob wrote:

devalue the price of stuff.

Prove it. Prove that stuff wouldnt be devalued regardless of the tractor. Prove what a 'fair' price truely is. There are sooooo many factors you dont even see much less comprehend.

Just how many seashells is a bushel of corn worth? I would argue that all the seashells in the world arent worth a single piece of food that you need.
Now in PoE, the seashells actually do have some use. So inflation can only only go so high. If the price is so terrible, then craft your own.

"

Spoonmann wrote:

"

Magnicon2 wrote:

By the way, individual players have been getting together to do what MBs have been doing since the beginning, and they do it significantly more efficiently then the MBs do. I wouldn't be surprised if they create more currency then the MBers.
Seriously people, its 2013. The ignorance is getting really old.

I feel that you are correct in what you are saying. A party of 6 humans working together should be able to farm more efficiently than a multi-boxer using even the best available software.

Of course he's correct. But it redirects your attention to "how much average currency can drop on the floor in a given amount of farming time" rather than "how much currency is going to one individual person in a given amount of farming time".



Of course a group of 6 people will out-perform scripted multi-boxing bots. But then loot is divided among 6 different people, and they will all have that currency for their 6 different sets of gear and their own individual wants & needs.

But the solo multi-boxer will have all of his loot gain for himself. He has no need to maximize 6 characters, so he can use his riches to maximize his favorite that he plans on being his main.




Do you see the difference now, and how people keep trying to trick you with their "arguments"?

"

SkyCore wrote:

"

Cambob wrote:

"

SkyCore wrote:

Imagine this:
There are foragers who search for food all day long. They happily have plenty of food to survive. Until...
One day they hear about others planting things in order to harvest them without as much effort as it takes to foraging.
The foragers place blame on the farmers uttering ridiculous things like 'farmers are ruining my foraging'. They do their best to come up with all kinds of illogical but influential reasons why farmers are hurting them.
Those who point out that foragers still have enough food to survive... are attacked.
Those who point out that farmers are not attacking the foragers... are attacked.
Those who dont agree that farmers are hurting the foragers ...are ... (you guessed it) attacked.
I see a pattern here.

imagine this:
someone drives up in a tractor and farms 100% faster than you.
They take all of their stuff to market and devalue the price of stuff.

the tractor is not included in the game.

still cheating.

You completely missed the point.

A forager could be happy. It is just that he is jealous. Instead of only having what he needs, a farmer has a 100 times what he needs. And the unhappy forager wants that.
The person to blame for the foragers unhappiness is the FORAGER.

No - YOU are completely missing the point, as you have been for 30 pages now. Granted, I know it's on purpose because you're trying to trick people, but here's the actual point of what Cambob is saying...



The forager without the tractor CAN'T be happy just with having what he needs, because he can't get what he needs. The market inflated too high, and the normalized farming that he can achieve in a day doesn't properly feed himself and his family. They're hungry and cold, and the crop season is about to end. Their house is falling apart and the temperatures are dropping. Meanwhile, Mr. Tractor just upsized his property. He's got a two-story house, fully reinforced for hurricane protection, and he has all the food & money in the world. His family is getting fat because of how well-off they are.

"

ShadyC wrote:

*sigh*

I can't believe I have to say this out loud...






Bots USE multi-boxing to maximize their botting.

It's not one or the other.

You're a fool. Or an amazing troll.

"

SkyCore wrote:

"

Cambob wrote:

"

SkyCore wrote:

Imagine this:
There are foragers who search for food all day long. They happily have plenty of food to survive. Until...
One day they hear about others planting things in order to harvest them without as much effort as it takes to foraging.
The foragers place blame on the farmers uttering ridiculous things like 'farmers are ruining my foraging'. They do their best to come up with all kinds of illogical but influential reasons why farmers are hurting them.
Those who point out that foragers still have enough food to survive... are attacked.
Those who point out that farmers are not attacking the foragers... are attacked.
Those who dont agree that farmers are hurting the foragers ...are ... (you guessed it) attacked.
I see a pattern here.

imagine this:
someone drives up in a tractor and farms 100% faster than you.
They take all of their stuff to market and devalue the price of stuff.

the tractor is not included in the game.

still cheating.

You completely missed the point.

A forager could be happy. It is just that he is jealous. Instead of only having what he needs, a farmer has a 100 times what he needs. And the unhappy forager wants that.
The person to blame for the foragers unhappiness is the FORAGER.

"

Cambob wrote:

devalue the price of stuff.

Prove it. Prove that stuff wouldnt be devalued regardless of the tractor. Prove what a 'fair' price truely is. There are sooooo many factors you dont even see much less comprehend.

Just how many seashells is a bushel of corn worth? I would argue that all the seashells in the world arent worth a single piece of food that you need.
Now in PoE, the seashells actually do have some use. So inflation can only only go so high. If the price is so terrible, then craft your own.

Really?
Ok, first of all. calm down. this isn't Farmville.
Secondly. cheating is cheating. but if you can't grasp what cheating means, google a definition.
Next, I don't have to prove anything. if you're too dense to find the evidence on the net and too selfish to understand what cheating means, then anything I said will have no impact on your style of gaming.

Bigger, real life problems are often caused by people who think the same what you do. Yes, this is just a game, but I'm here to play Path of Exile, not Path of Cheating.

If you really need to cheat, I can't stop you. But it's pathetic that you feel it's "intelligent" to cheat.

"

ShadyC wrote:

The forager without the tractor CAN'T be happy just with having what he needs, because he can't get what he needs. The market inflated too high, and the normalized farming that he can achieve in a day doesn't properly feed himself and his family. They're hungry and cold, and the crop season is about to end. Their house is falling apart and the temperatures are dropping. Meanwhile, Mr. Tractor just upsized his property. He's got a two-story house, fully reinforced for hurricane protection, and he has all the food & money in the world. His family is getting fat because of how well-off they are.

As a farmer or a forager, I dont NEED a single damn thing the market offers. Not a single thing. I can provide for my family just fine.
That is just one thing of a thousand which you fail to see.

"

Cambob wrote:

Is multiboxing included with the game? No.
Does multiboxing give one player an advantage over other players? Yes.

multiboxing is cheating.

That's analogous to saying that alcoholic beverages and marijuana are immoral.

If you drink alcohol or smoke marijuana, does that make you more likely to commit crimes like:

• driving while intoxicated?
• assault and battery?
• sexual assault or rape?

I'm pretty sure that, strictly speaking, the answer is yes. If you plot it all out on a graph, there's probably a positive correlation.

But does that make the use of those substances immoral in and of itself? For alcohol, almost everyone thinks it isn't intrinsically immoral, and in marijuana's case it's a fiercely debated, controversial issue (at least in the US).

Multiboxing is the act of one individual simultaneously having multiple accounts logged in separately on different machines.

Is that a warning sign for botting and other forms of automation that exploit an in-game economy? Certainly. There's a positive correlation.

But is the act intrinsically wrong? If you keep it at its minimalist definition, is it cheating? No. If it's just one guy hopping from machine to machine, playing musical chairs with himself, then there's really no harm in it.

Like I said, the real enemy is botting, and although it might make some sense for GGG to keep a watchful eye on people they see multiboxing, it is not cheating in-and-of-itself.

In my opinion, multiboxing should not be punished at all; on the other hand, I'm not a Bible-thumper.