The Multi-box Thread: How it ruins the game.

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ShadyC wrote:

*sigh*

I can't believe I have to say this out loud...






Bots USE multi-boxing to maximize their botting.

It's not one or the other.

This. Now go away with your multiboxing doesn't hurt anything.

GGG is against pay to win, mutliboxing leads to RTM, RTM = Pay to Win.

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Ultimace wrote:

you guys should stop bickering at each other, rather find a solution together to work out the problem.

having 30 pages of argueing if botting/mutliboxing is bad or not is pointless. if i were ggg id have closed this thread by now.


althou an offical respond to the mb issue would be kinda nice, op has it right that it does destroy the market.

Nope, op has it wrong. The 'market' has been inflated to it's nominal value by currency entering it. Prices correspond to crafting costs. A 6L is worth 300-400 fusing. That's around it's average cost. This is precisely the natural conclusion of the currency/crafting systems design.

People are just bitching because they didn't get into the market early when prices were still being discovered, and the boat has sailed.

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Ultimace wrote:

you guys should stop bickering at each other, rather find a solution together to work out the problem.

having 30 pages of argueing if botting/mutliboxing is bad or not is pointless. if i were ggg id have closed this thread by now.


althou an offical respond to the mb issue would be kinda nice, op has it right that it does destroy the market.

Item fountain monster bonus for multiplayer is old school.
get rid of the iir/iiq for multiplayer and you get rid of "multi-farmers"

Players will still party up for the challenge and social fun of team play.
The ridiculous profit advantage given to multi-boxers will be gone.
Stuff will still drop.

Is that the ultimate solution? No. Cheaters will continue to cheat. But it's one of many possible measures to REDUCE cheating.

each day everyday

chaos orbs drop 10000~

that's online for ya.

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Dudebag wrote:

i dont think GGG said anything about multiboxing=cheating.

did they?


if people have good computer to run multiple accounts, that's not cheating.

if people have multiple computers to run accounts , that's not cheating.


if people use 3rd party program, that's cheating.

bot, cheating.


dont mix those together tho.

Explain to me how you multibox WITHOUT a 3rd party program?

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Dudebag wrote:

each day everyday

chaos orbs drop 10000~

that's online for ya.

each and every day exalts drop 1000~
that's online for ya.

"

each and every day exalts drop 1000~
that's online for ya.

hope so.
in reality i find 1~2chaos per day. so i just multiply that by few.
exalts, only once in 3months.

you get the point tho

each day people are finding multiple orbs.

and right now people are demanding exalt,gcp way more than other currencies.


i personally don't like to get involved into this currency war.
too risky , ggg can crash that war with ease.

Sorry for the LONG read upfront; I hope everyone enjoys "Game Design Economics 101" :-)


The OP has a rather long winded conclusion without really stating what the _real_ problem is:
-> Inflation

The _cause_ is this simple formula:
-> Time = Money

Temporary solutions (such as economy wipes) will NEVER address the problem. Why?

There is an old saying:

"Show me your strength, and I will show you your weakness."

RPGs give the nice allusion of players accumulating power over time. That is:
-> player's time invested = phat loot

This is fine and fun for casual players as the OP correctly states.

Q. Now what happens when the game provides (enables) an "infinite" supply of "money" (items) when players just simply need to provide the "time"? (Note: To NOT do so would be unfair to others -- why should they be given a "free pass" when they haven't spent as much as time as another? So we are sort of forced into this modus operandi game design by default.)

A. ALL RPGS based on the "Time = Power" model ALSO have a fatal design flaw that the OP was skirting around but never really addressed:

-> There is nothing the game (design) can do to prevent certain players from minimizing the time spent playing and maximizing the rewards simply by investing more time into the game then others in order to have more "wealth".

Why?

In the "old" days if you wanted to run N copies of the game, you had to buy N copies and have N computers. Controlling multiple characters at once is tough with only 2 hands so people automated the whole process. As computers became more and more powerful you no longer needed multiple computers, you could do the same function on one computer, aka "multi-boxing"

The argument that "multi-box" destroys the economy is a RED herring and has been hashed time and time again ad nauseum.

Us "old-time" gamers remember the boom-bust cycle of EVERY online economy.



It happened in Ultima Online, it happened in Diablo 2, Diablo 3, etc. Each time the _exact_ same "problems". Blizzard's "solution" in Diablo 2 was to have a temporary "ladder" season where only a few items were available in this mode: Runewords such as Enigma, Infinity, etc. Every few years or so, the ladder would reset because very few wanted to play on "non-ladder".

Diablo 3 doesn't have a solution (except to nerf "vase farming." Really?!?! Blizzards needs to micro-manage how players play the game??) It has rampant inflation as admited by Jay Wilson and why people jokingly call it "Auction House Simulator":


Every proposed "solution" is destined to fail. Let's quickly analyze them:

* Economy reset. Stop-gap solution that will end up in the same predicament X months down the road.

* Let us add yet-another-currency. (Note: PoE has done a fantastic job of itemization! Some call it the "true spiritual successor to Diablo 2 LOD for good reason!) Sadly, this added currency just delays the inevitable as above.

* Let's say that we somehow restrict the time a user can play. They will simply switch to another account. What, you thought banning an user by IP or their unique ID is a solution? LOL. (It is even _worse_ in "pay-to-play" games because they will simply buy another copy. You are "helping" your profits for their "bad" behavior.)

* So you say that "Ah, that darn multi-boxing is the problem" like the OP thought. OK, say we have some magic technology and we can guarantee only one IP connection per user. So along with stopping Fathers playing along side their Sons at home (uh, WHOOPS), this _really_ stops multi-boxers, right? Wrong!

How so? We need to look what the Chinese-Gold-Farmers do in other games:



They have N people on N machines playing the game. Gold (or whatever item(s) that are worth currency) are "funneled" up to the pit boss. This "organized" "farming" works by consolidating _buying_ and _selling_ power into the hands of a few.

-> This consolidated market power whether done manually, or automated is a SYMPTOM of the model:
---> Time = Items

It is impossible to stop people from cooperating in order to gain control.

So you say, OK, great analysis now how what the heck can WE do about it? There are a few ways to address this:

1. "Stop Trading"
The _only_ way to "fix" over-priced items, to stop currency devaluation, to stop inflation, etc., is the radical not have trading in the game!?!? Aside from the crazy "IronMan" league (almost) no one wants that!

So that leaves us with option #2...

2. "Let it go."
By having trading we are forced to acknowledge that we must live with the necessary evils that certain _dedicated_ people can "corner" the market and must put up with other "evils" such as "arbitrage" that comes with it.


3. "Local Currency"
As I have gotten older I form my own sub-communities in the games I play with my friends. We ALL collect items and FREELY trade/give them to one another as needed. This way we don't give a crap what other people's over-priced items are. We have learnt to just "Play the game and have fun."

Is there a 4th option? You tell me. Everyone here can hash out the pros & cons of such a system.

What way works for you?

Cheers


P.S.
Diablo 3 may have better graphics & combat but it lacks the _soul_ of Diablo 2: Itemization. PoE 's radical game design is pure joy for the "hard-core" D2X fans. At least here I don't have to put up with Diablo screaming at you like a 5 year old!

Solution:

1. I will call them "Fair-Trade" Players group up.
2. FT´s host their own Forum
3. FT´s control who is coming into this forum
4. FT´s Trade in their own world

Problem solved. This is your Solution if you want to still trade in a "fair economy".

GGG can't do much against it. You Ban Multiaccounts in some way and still there is the same problem. Its not gone:

* People with more playtime will have more currency
* Farm Companies will still farm more currency
* Greedy Players will overprize
* Cheap Players do not want to pay much

And there is a simple reason, people are willing to spend money for Items or Currency. They don't want to wait for RNG if they can just spend some bugs and get the item/currency they want. And because of this there will be always a market and people grinding much more and then bum comes the inflation.

Not because of the farmers, because of the players that are the base of this market / industry. They create the demand and others will come to give them what they want. It is like that. Its a fact and there is nothing to discuss.

This whole attitude is in my opinion misguided. Its not about playing the game and having fun, find Items and let RNG do his magic. Its about having the best items as fast as possible and then have maybe fun?


So plz stop this whole useless QQ Shit, they are not the problem. Others are the problem and done.

With such arguments brought to the table there is only one conclusion:

This game was doomed in same moment it was made.

I remember playing Lineage 2. It looked similar: sooner or later people got max lvls, max items and prices went to roof for newer players. Only solution to this problem was to WIPE servers every few months. But people didnt understand that was only possible solution and did quit. If this game works on same rules. Then its doomed to work like this:

->make new league->get donates->people reach MAX->wipe->some quit-> repeat process...