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SL4Y3R wrote:
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flab wrote:
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Those balance changes were against multi loaders, not multi boxers.
The second does not exist without the first, the first is the most basic form of the second that's possible, in terms of exploitation. You are being incredibly naive if you think multiboxing can't be efficient, it is also regularly and closely linked to botting.
Flab, I know you're a pretty smart guy. Multi loading was simply loading an instance with alts. Done
Multiboxing, is completely different. Think of it like this, have you personally ever even SEEN a video of someone doing it efficiently? I've looked at several boards that deal with this topic, and have yet to see ANYONE showing it working. You would have to have them all incredibly geared, since any dog would instantly take them out.
They would have to follow PERFECTLY, which I have yet to see. Not only that, if they collide, their alignment is completely screwed. You really wouldn't want them killing anything, unless you had them ALL with amazing MF
The technical hurdles I have yet to see overcome, since at any point if one dies, there goes 50%. This OBVIOUSLY isn't viable in maps. Further, anytime one does die, do they take the time to revive them and get them back in formation? If so, this again slows you down. Constantly being slowed down USA bad thing. Remember this is all about efficiency.
I would be willing to pay an exalt to anyone who shows me a multiboxing setup working efficiently. Multiloaders need not apply.
Want to know how I know all of this is a bunch of bull? I multiloaded for several months in CB. NEVER did I accumulate anywhere near e amount of currency that is flowing thru default now. I bought the most expensive item in CB for 150 GCP. I had to sell EVERYTHING I had accumulated. EVERYTHING. This total came from me selling maps, an erqi, AMAZING 6Ls ( lucky as fusings), all my gg witch gear, quality gems, everything. All netted me 25 exalts. This was everything from however long from that ladder starting to OB pretty much.
Considering items are selling for around 2x that amount, sometimes easily. Multiboxing is not the sole cause. Not even close. I know what orb drops are like. It's not much better. My wealth came from the alch and regal recipe mainly btw.
Let's be clear here, multiboxing in acceptable ways just won't be efficient, I agree with that. But that's not the point, that's not what anybody will be doing to exploit things, go ahead and try to run 6 clients and control them manually, individually, good luck with that.
Multiboxing and multiloading aren't all that different, multiloading is just far more basic and accessible, if multiloading could be advantageous why would improved forms of it be less advantageous? It is like the solo vs party thing, the one method (multiboxing) is always capable of at least exploiting the advantages of the other (multiclienting) since it inherits or is derived from it.
You are unlikely to see many videos or guides of people taking advantage or exploiting things in less than acceptable ways (proxying, hacks), the people that would and could take advantage of this are relatively unlikely to share their methods for a number of reasons, including because it'd be advantageous and against the rules.
Are you a good, experienced hacker/programmer, particularly with attempts in PoE? Because if you're not, you can't say much about the technical hurdles to be perfectly honest. You'd have no experience or knowledge of what you could possibly exploit or use to make multiboxing more efficient. Unknown, rare, difficult things aren't impossible things either, just because you haven't seen evidence of it doesn't mean it's not happening, won't or can't happen. I see LOTS of potential for abusive multiboxing, take that as you will.
Fwiw, I'm not saying multiboxing is even affecting anything at all as it is, but that you should not be discounting the possibility or potential.
Also, who'd care about an exalt if they have far more at stake (hypothetically)?
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 31, 2013, 12:44:16 AM
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I was just throwing the offer out there. I personally don't give a shit. Is it POSSIBLE someone could around the hurdles of multiboxing? Of course. Is it possible so many people have gotten around the hurdles, and kept their mouths shut? Not very likely. It's the Internet, and people love to brag.
If multiloading was not garnering this much currency in CB, from not just me, but EVERYONE who was doing it,why would OB be any different? Remember, we're talking about raw currency here. You need to be able to upsell your found currency to exalts. Since prices are so high, the rate of conversion scales with it.
OR is it much more plausible that people are just outright buying exalts? Personally, and obviously, I believe there are that many people paying for orbs in this game. There is a reason the spam has increased lately. There's obviously a demand.
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Posted bySL4Y3R#7487on Mar 31, 2013, 12:58:55 AMBanned
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SL4Y3R wrote:
I was just throwing the offer out there. I personally don't give a shit. Is it POSSIBLE someone could around the hurdles of multiboxing? Of course. Is it possible so many people have gotten around the hurdles, and kept their mouths shut? Not very likely. It's the Internet, and people love to brag.
If multiloading was not garnering this much currency in CB, from not just me, but EVERYONE who was doing it,why would OB be any different? Remember, we're talking about raw currency here. You need to be able to upsell your found currency to exalts. Since prices are so high, the rate of conversion scales with it.
OR is it much more plausible that people are just outright buying exalts? Personally, and obviously, I believe there are that many people paying for orbs in this game. There is a reason the spam has increased lately. There's obviously a demand.
People using RMT doesn't really prove anything other than many people are willing to pay money for currency, hardly surprising, and I absolutely agree it would have a radical effect on value.
The fact that people are paying money for currency will push people to do increasingly dodgy shit though, this is why I don't think anybody should be discounting anything regarding loot and exploitation in the game.
Remember, it doesn't have to be "so many people", it could be a small group that's incredibly well organized having some sort of exclusive advantages (which is particularly common in real life exploitation).
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 31, 2013, 1:13:59 AM
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But if they're multiboxing, they still NEED to upsell currency.
There is absolutely NO way around this. The more expensive exalts become, the harder this is to accomplish. That's all I'm saying.
Last edited by SL4Y3R#7487 on Mar 31, 2013, 1:33:32 AM
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Posted bySL4Y3R#7487on Mar 31, 2013, 1:33:26 AMBanned
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What does a simple carpet salesman like me do in this situation? I grind hours and hours a day selling all my carpets just to get 40 alts. then when I try to exchange for higher currency nobody would take less than 25 alts per chaos, even though 16 alts = 2 fusings at vendor.... is there going to be any sort of regulation at some point? this is really breaking my balls... I go to sleep and wake up the next day just to find out chaos orbs are almost worthless even though for me, they drop once in a moon and they still have the same function. yet somehow they are deemed as "bad" currency now. And even when i pool all my hard earned currency over weeks to buy a nice item. the seller says that he only wants pure exalts...
IGN: Jarengax
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Posted byJarenga#1275on Mar 31, 2013, 2:46:57 AM
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Since when are chaos orbs worthless?
I honestly do not understand why people in OB value exalts so much. Divines have more use than an exalt does.
Just because something is rare, does/should not make it valuable. To each his own I guess.
Oh, and Jarenga, dunno. I just happen to find things while mapping that I will use myself, or for different characters.
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Posted bySL4Y3R#7487on Mar 31, 2013, 2:52:38 AMBanned
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Jarenga wrote:
What does a simple carpet salesman like me do in this situation? I grind hours and hours a day selling all my carpets just to get 40 alts. then when I try to exchange for higher currency nobody would take less than 25 alts per chaos, even though 16 alts = 2 fusings at vendor.... is there going to be any sort of regulation at some point? this is really breaking my balls... I go to sleep and wake up the next day just to find out chaos orbs are almost worthless even though for me, they drop once in a moon and they still have the same function. yet somehow they are deemed as "bad" currency now. And even when i pool all my hard earned currency over weeks to buy a nice item. the seller says that he only wants pure exalts...
The problem is they don't actually have the same function. Better gear = lower value currency, particularly for the more random function currencies (GCPs are worst though, since they are ultimately worthless, linear +1 progression that tops out). In a young economy, alchs, chaos are worth a LOT but as the quality of the average gear in circulation or supply increases, the value of the average rolls of chaos or alchs decrease.
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 31, 2013, 2:59:19 AM
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SL4Y3R wrote:
Since when are chaos orbs worthless?
I honestly do not understand why people in OB value exalts so much. Divines have more use than an exalt does.
Just because something is rare, does/should not make it valuable. To each his own I guess.
Oh, and Jarenga, dunno. I just happen to find things while mapping that I will use myself, or for different characters.
That's exactly what I am saying... people still use chaos orbs to get better map rolls, they still use chaos orbs to try and get a nice roll on that high ilvl item they just looted, yet, for some reason, chaos orbs purchasing value is really going down hill. exatly 2 weeks ago 15 chaos would get you an exalt, but now the minimum someone would take is 20, which is a whoping 30% increase!!! The OP has a really good argument for why this is happening.. but by the time I finished reading I got really depressed.
IGN: Jarengax
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Posted byJarenga#1275on Mar 31, 2013, 3:00:07 AM
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flab wrote:
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Jarenga wrote:
What does a simple carpet salesman like me do in this situation? I grind hours and hours a day selling all my carpets just to get 40 alts. then when I try to exchange for higher currency nobody would take less than 25 alts per chaos, even though 16 alts = 2 fusings at vendor.... is there going to be any sort of regulation at some point? this is really breaking my balls... I go to sleep and wake up the next day just to find out chaos orbs are almost worthless even though for me, they drop once in a moon and they still have the same function. yet somehow they are deemed as "bad" currency now. And even when i pool all my hard earned currency over weeks to buy a nice item. the seller says that he only wants pure exalts...
The problem is they don't actually have the same function. Better gear = lower value currency, particularly for the more random function currencies (GCPs are worst though, since they are ultimately worthless, linear +1 progression that tops out). In a young economy, alchs, chaos are worth a LOT but as the quality of the average gear in circulation or supply increases, the value of the average rolls of chaos or alchs decrease.
Except maps eat chaos orbs.
Chaos aside, WHY are exalts more valued than divines? I've never understood this. An Exalt is used to MAKE gear, and like GCP, these have a low max use per item A Divine is used to PERFECT gear, and can be used MANY more times than an exalt.
EDIT: BTW, odds are, that is a trolling attempt in that photo. Not from Shady, but from the person who posted it on Reddit
Last edited by SL4Y3R#7487 on Mar 31, 2013, 3:04:35 AM
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Posted bySL4Y3R#7487on Mar 31, 2013, 3:02:07 AMBanned
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SL4Y3R wrote:
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flab wrote:
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Jarenga wrote:
What does a simple carpet salesman like me do in this situation? I grind hours and hours a day selling all my carpets just to get 40 alts. then when I try to exchange for higher currency nobody would take less than 25 alts per chaos, even though 16 alts = 2 fusings at vendor.... is there going to be any sort of regulation at some point? this is really breaking my balls... I go to sleep and wake up the next day just to find out chaos orbs are almost worthless even though for me, they drop once in a moon and they still have the same function. yet somehow they are deemed as "bad" currency now. And even when i pool all my hard earned currency over weeks to buy a nice item. the seller says that he only wants pure exalts...
The problem is they don't actually have the same function. Better gear = lower value currency, particularly for the more random function currencies (GCPs are worst though, since they are ultimately worthless, linear +1 progression that tops out). In a young economy, alchs, chaos are worth a LOT but as the quality of the average gear in circulation or supply increases, the value of the average rolls of chaos or alchs decrease.
Except maps eat chaos orbs.
Chaos aside, WHY are exalts more valued than divines? I've never understood this. An Exalt is used to MAKE gear, and like GCP, these have a low max use per item A Divine is used to PERFECT gear, and can be used MANY more times than an exalt.
EDIT: BTW, odds are, that is a trolling attempt in that photo. Not from Shady, but from the person who posted it on Reddit
Yes maps eat chaos, but maps are shorter term consumables vs gear which could be irreplaceable. You are right in that divines are clearly the final step in perfection, but you still need the mods first, apparently that takes a fair amount of time and/or exalts. There is no doubt that for some people, or gear, divines are worth more than exalts.
Hell, I can say the same about the value of chaos vs exalts when we're talking about average or shit gear, early in a race for instance, I'd rather have a chaos than an exalt. Chances are I'm getting more value from the chaos.
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Posted byDeletedon Mar 31, 2013, 3:12:16 AM
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