The Plague that is GGG's "Trade" system. & the Predatory dance feeding its lowkey P2W mechanism.

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allionus wrote:

Sorry it took me a while to respond - I'd gone out on a 5 day vacay.
Getting back into the discussion -

No.
Not well said at all.
That is just a poor attempt to reduce the whole practice as "JuSt bUsInEsS" and "iT's NoT a ChArItY". The dude clearly has never made a distinction between "good business practice" and "bad business practice". And since these are things that exist within our objective universe, there are objective answers to each "business practice's ethics". Despite people's limited, subjective preferences.

Dude went to the extent to project some emotion on me lmao. Just because I bring up a problem, must mean "I AM RANTING" or "I AM UPSET", and no way I could just be spending some of my free time taking a deeper look at the whole thing. Nice scarecrow!!
This person seems to use no metrics to assess pros or cons of GGG's monetization system saying "it's all just business" (mostly because they personally do not care), but will have personal issues IRL, where businesses that this person interacts with, end up milking every single penny out of them. But on a forum, all that can be concealed, and the whole argument called off as "its just a business broh just chill yeeee".

Dude literally made 0 effort to argue against the P2W aspect of their 'monetization' lol.

I didn't know his message was directed at you, I just merely thought he made a good point ;p

I just woke up from a long shift so I don't feel like debating right now, but maybe later

P2W argument about stash tabs, smh, 10-20 bucks you'd solve that, for a game you spent more than 3000 hours on.

You should spend some time in korean MMO's to get some perspective on what p2w is. Heck, even in games like guild wars 2 you can swipe without limit to instantly get in-game currency.

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Scorpio_ASC wrote:

P2W argument about stash tabs, smh, 10-20 bucks you'd solve that, for a game you spent more than 3000 hours on.

You should spend some time in korean MMO's to get some perspective on what p2w is. Heck, even in games like guild wars 2 you can swipe without limit to instantly get in-game currency.

Yeah, ajo is like that - constantly complaining about it yet still choosing to care enough to play and participate in the forums. But he definitely doesn't know the joy and frustration those of us who did the MMo thing are familiar with.

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ajo wrote:

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

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Scorpio_ASC wrote:

P2W argument about stash tabs, smh, 10-20 bucks you'd solve that, for a game you spent more than 3000 hours on.

You should spend some time in korean MMO's to get some perspective on what p2w is. Heck, even in games like guild wars 2 you can swipe without limit to instantly get in-game currency.

Yeah, ajo is like that - constantly complaining about it yet still choosing to care enough to play and participate in the forums. But he definitely doesn't know the joy and frustration those of us who did the MMo thing are familiar with.

It's money wasted on something that should be part of the base game. Besides, if GGG went full blown korean pay-to-win, they would only lose money. Otherwise they would have already done that by now.
So I can't really see the argument that having a optimal level of pay-to-win from a sales point of view is fine. We shouldn't have it at all and that money would be better of funding cosmetics than funding item bloating strategies, and you are blind if you can't see how it affects the core design in a bad way.

Yep, the item bloat predatory practice is getting old. I remember a time when I bought into the stash page hype. "Premium tabs? Hell yea thanks GGG! Currency tab! Hell yea thanks GGG!"

But at this point I see every league coming and I'm like, oh new league? Lemme see....Oh 23 new currencies thats gonna need its own special stash tab for 20 bucks? F you GGG. I mean seriously.

Do they really not make enough money on MTX nowadays? That they have to continually item bloat the game for the sole purpose of selling stash tabs? Because if thats not the case, they would be finding ways to let you add said new stuff to existing tabs, instead of selling entire new tabs. They are incredibly predatory, like any p2w game. Even worse in some cases. I mean you have to spend money on premium tabs to even remotely enjoy trading. Which, for the longest time, is basically linked to a 3rd party site with RMT ads plastered all over it.

My friend, you are totally underestimating the complexity and the cost of running always-online, global AH. The costs and technical difficulties would basically double the cost of operating the game.

I don't blame you since you probably have very little knowledge of this stuff, but it's just that - it's too complex and too costly. There is no devious schema behind current flawed system.

And also imo it's a nice touch for me, that it behaves more like a real world trade scenarios rather than automated sell/buy bot.

I read your essay . My game experience is nothing like you describe. I am from Europe and Russian players are the fastest to respond when i trade with them. I like the trade system . It allows me to visit other people's hideouts and sometimes see cool stuff in there. You say GGG want to force us to buy stash tabs ? I,m ok with that as long as , they not force me to pay to login in the game . I see complains but i don't solutions. What should they do to make the amount of money they make , without using the methods they are using now ?

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Nelhyss wrote:

I'll never understand why a minority of people want an Auction House so badly and I'm glad GGG keeps ignoring them.

Because it's easy. People like convenience. It's pretty simple.

People can say "not me, I'm a hardcore gamer" all they want, but I doubt they are playing the game the same way they were as in beta. Nobody wants to lurk trade to get the best deal on fusings so they can burn 500 on a 5-link. So they made it easier. Some people want that for the entire trading process.

Hope this helps! Even if I'm pretty sure you were just using a lazy rhetoric device to make yourself look cool and aloof.

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Scorpio_ASC wrote:

P2W argument about stash tabs, smh, 10-20 bucks you'd solve that, for a game you spent more than 3000 hours on.

You should spend some time in korean MMO's to get some perspective on what p2w is. Heck, even in games like guild wars 2 you can swipe without limit to instantly get in-game currency.

Firstly, a single penny spent on ADVANTAGE that non-spenders do not have, make any game P2W by definition.

Secondly, I've already spent more than just "10-20 bucks". And yeah, the problem didn't solve itself.

Every major update they introduce dozens of little random items, so your statement of "just pay 10-20 bucks to get over the P2W wall", doesn't work since it's not a constant. Their whole system is rigged to stuff player stashes, which only becomes so effectively possible due to the fact they've desperately made sure the trade system is so utterly slow and shiet, that the only remaining way to not lose on currency by having to trash items in stash worth "100 chaos", to make space for an item worth "150" chaos, is to pay for more storage everytime a player reaches storage cap.

And this cap is to easily reached due to how miserably slow and time wasting the whole trade process is. Every year this stays unchanged, players will collectively be losing potentially millions of hours of their lives alt-tabbing back and forth the browser and trade sites, hopping in and out of seller hideouts, and ctrl c+v ing the living frick out of sellers to buy anything from crafting items to items to currency, etc.


Utter waste of individual instances of existences. All for a little more profit.

Remember -

The "currency stash tab" which costs almost 10 USD, DOESN'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH SPACE TO STORE ALL CURRENCY TYPES, ON TOP OF THAT, IT HAS PUNY LIMITS ON CURRENCY STACKING! LMAO

And don't forget the fact that it is not a "one time payment to solve the p2w problem". They've focused their whole item design around Making the Storage Paywall "rise up" overtime. So paying once is not going to solve the problem. Unless you pay in several hundreds of amrikan dollaz just for the advantage of all premium stash tabs which you won't have to think about buying again for some time.