Please Remove 10% Exp Loss on Death

welp. time for new separate league. some argue that it'll farther divide the player base to have another league but we really need it.


you guys can have AH, skip act1-10 option or no portal limit, harvest craft as is..etc whatever they want in that league.


GGG will have to concider it because these poeple bring so much negativity to this forum, it's just unhealthy.


we need HC community SC community and one more community for people here.

simple ruile be like
don't need to understand each other , dont trash each other. just live happilyy within the community. don't try to ruin other community.

chris wilson has really harsh opinion about death but he needs to study more about newer generation. they are different

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Angry_Casual wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

(...)
Most of the "remove death penalty" faction also forget one major fact. You want the penalty removed because it prevents you from progessing your char further at a certain point. Say level 90. If you got your will and the penalty got removed then all your chars would be 100 and you would be at the exact same point where you can't progress anymore, just with 10 passive points extra which typically hardly even matter. So what's even the big benefit of removing it?
(...)

I think you are failing to see the complaint of players that dislike the penalty. We don't complain the idea that we can't get to level 100. If you locked the last levels behind completing hard content, we probably wouldn't complain (at least, I wouldn't).
What we complain about is the fact that it sets us back. The feeling of simply having multiple hours of grinding just wasted is terrible, and this is what we want to get changed. Find a way to keep the penalty's objectives without that feeling of being set ages back for a random death, and a lot of us will stop complaining about it.

I seriously doubt that tbh. Sure, from a psychological point of view it hurts more to lose something you already had then simply not getting something, but that only applies if the thing you lose had any value to you. If you didi't care about reaching the next level you also wouldn't care about the xp loss.

But you do care, based on your way of writing i'd even say that one of your main reasons for playing is to gather xp for your next level. "Grinding for hours only to see it wasted". I never feel like that. I play because i have fun slaugtering monsters, i am not grinding for a specific goal and certainly not for xp. And as soon as i've reached my desired level i might as well not get any xp in the first place, it simply doesn't matter at all.

Last weekend i went into the AL8 Sirus encounter with ~10% xp on my char. I have 2 other builds with 0 xp that could have done the fight instead but i didn't use them. I just played with the 10% char knowing i would lose the xp and didn't give a shit.

As for an alternative. There was one suggestion here on the forum a couple of months ago that imo was the only good alternative ever presented, maybe you'd like that better?

Instead of losing XP upon death you get a XX% debuff on your xp bar that you have to work off before you can progress your xp bar again. If you die while still having the debuff it gets refreshed to full. This way you wouldn't lose the xp gained, you just couldn't progress further as long as you keep dying.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Angry_Casual wrote:

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

(...)
Most of the "remove death penalty" faction also forget one major fact. You want the penalty removed because it prevents you from progessing your char further at a certain point. Say level 90. If you got your will and the penalty got removed then all your chars would be 100 and you would be at the exact same point where you can't progress anymore, just with 10 passive points extra which typically hardly even matter. So what's even the big benefit of removing it?
(...)

I think you are failing to see the complaint of players that dislike the penalty. We don't complain the idea that we can't get to level 100. If you locked the last levels behind completing hard content, we probably wouldn't complain (at least, I wouldn't).
What we complain about is the fact that it sets us back. The feeling of simply having multiple hours of grinding just wasted is terrible, and this is what we want to get changed. Find a way to keep the penalty's objectives without that feeling of being set ages back for a random death, and a lot of us will stop complaining about it.

I seriously doubt that tbh. Sure, from a psychological point of view it hurts more to lose something you already had then simply not getting something, but that only applies if the thing you lose had any value to you. If you didi't care about reaching the next level you also wouldn't care about the xp loss.

But you do care, based on your way of writing i'd even say that one of your main reasons for playing is to gather xp for your next level. "Grinding for hours only to see it wasted". I never feel like that. I play because i have fun slaugtering monsters, i am not grinding for a specific goal and certainly not for xp. And as soon as i've reached my desired level i might as well not get any xp in the first place, it simply doesn't matter at all.

Last weekend i went into the AL8 Sirus encounter with ~10% xp on my char. I have 2 other builds with 0 xp that could have done the fight instead but i didn't use them. I just played with the 10% char knowing i would lose the xp and didn't give a shit.

As for an alternative. There was one suggestion here on the forum a couple of months ago that imo was the only good alternative ever presented, maybe you'd like that better?

Instead of losing XP upon death you get a XX% debuff on your xp bar that you have to work off before you can progress your xp bar again. If you die while still having the debuff it gets refreshed to full. This way you wouldn't lose the xp gained, you just couldn't progress further as long as you keep dying.

That idea would work for me, you wouldnt be able to lose 10/20/30% due to getting angry and plain stupid about your death, a hard stop for "zergrushing" and loosing everything you gathered.

In harvest I have two chars on 93, on of them would still be 93 but at around 90% xp if I wouldnt fought sirius or did other dangerous content, but now he only has 50%. I always have this in mind when I play and its so annoying. I dont want to raise another char just for this case, if I raise a Char mid league, its because I want to try a build. So it annoys me to step back from dangerous content for the sake of my xp and also to loose it.
Another thing is: usually I stop playing a char because this game only offers so much variety in your playstyle, it simply becomes boring for me so I usually start a new one, so no worries about me hitting 100 too easy! ;D

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Baharoth15 wrote:

As for an alternative. There was one suggestion here on the forum a couple of months ago that imo was the only good alternative ever presented, maybe you'd like that better?

Instead of losing XP upon death you get a XX% debuff on your xp bar that you have to work off before you can progress your xp bar again. If you die while still having the debuff it gets refreshed to full. This way you wouldn't lose the xp gained, you just couldn't progress further as long as you keep dying.

That would be magnitudes better.
Then you could do HARD content with a char you still level at any time and would just need to work off the debuff afterwards instead of having lost all the prior progress.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

I seriously doubt that tbh. Sure, from a psychological point of view it hurts more to lose something you already had then simply not getting something, but that only applies if the thing you lose had any value to you. If you didi't care about reaching the next level you also wouldn't care about the xp loss.

If you aren't going to take my word for my description of my feelings for this matter, I'm not sure what more I can tell you.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Instead of losing XP upon death you get a XX% debuff on your xp bar that you have to work off before you can progress your xp bar again. If you die while still having the debuff it gets refreshed to full. This way you wouldn't lose the xp gained, you just couldn't progress further as long as you keep dying.

I already like this one a lot better than the current one, though I'd add instance closing (for non-acts areas) if you already have the debuff, in order to avoid the main thing the penalty is supposed to avoid : zerging (if you don't do that, there's the possibility of zerging, as you don't have anything more to lose).

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Baharoth15 wrote:

As for an alternative. There was one suggestion here on the forum a couple of months ago that imo was the only good alternative ever presented, maybe you'd like that better?

Instead of losing XP upon death you get a XX% debuff on your xp bar that you have to work off before you can progress your xp bar again. If you die while still having the debuff it gets refreshed to full. This way you wouldn't lose the xp gained, you just couldn't progress further as long as you keep dying.

I think it would backfire.

On the one hand, this suggestion takes away the ugly aspect of "I'd love to run this hard content I finally got the fragments for, but I have to wait till I dinged the next level". So +1

On the other hand, it would take away the glorious feeling of "I just dinged a level, time to go full ham and have a ton of fun before I start grinding boring content for the next level". So -1

An finally, it is an incentive to actually stop playing at that point. If you just lost the XP, you are annoyed and a few people even rage quit (for a while at least). But there are probably more people thinking "Damn. OK, time to get back into it and reclaim that XP". With the stop to future progression, people could easily end up at "My next few hours will anyway be wasted, so why bother?". This means that you feel punished for the next hours instead of for one super annoying instant. Definitely more than -1

But if you think about the actual reason for the DP, you can come up with many more alternatives. The reason for a DP is "get people to balance their build a bit more towards defenses, not just build glass cannons."

So how can you do that?
1. Prevent zerging. If you die in the boss room, the boss gets 50% of his max HP back. If you leave via portal, 20%. Voila, if your build is too squishy for this encounter, you will not progress until you improve.
2. Take away other stuff. Gear is an obvious choice, but most (non HC) people would really, really hate that. So other progress:
3. Whenever you die in a map of Tier X, you lose the atlas bonus on 5 maps of tier X and higher. So then you have to run those maps again if you want the bonus. Last epoch does something similar in its end game: It consists of a chain of ever harder maps. Die in one of them, and you drop back 3 steps in the map progression. Absolutely awesome solution.
4. Zones which specifically test your defenses. Trivial example: Areas you have to traverse where the ground deals enough damage that without some decent defenses you cannot pass.
5. Lose some IIR for a specific time after death.
6..1001: This post is already too long :)

All these suggestions have the added advanatge of always applying, even at max level.

Come on, with any imagination there are hundreds of solutions better than simple "lose XP". They are just more work to implement. But that is a lousy argument in a game which adds huge new content 4 times a year. There should really be a bit of time to improve QoL.

My last char was a 6,800 life max block max spell block gladiator with its lowest res at 85%, it still died to stuff which made no sense.
A death penalty makes no sense when GGG has literally got a guy working for them who's job is to ruin peoples fun and make sure they die, its pathetic.

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plaguefear wrote:

My last char was a 6,800 life max block max spell block gladiator with its lowest res at 85%, it still died to stuff which made no sense.
A death penalty makes no sense when GGG has literally got a guy working for them who's job is to ruin peoples fun and make sure they die, its pathetic.

Said before many times to people, but if you have that much mitigation and still die in this game then 99% percent of the time it's your fault. People roll multiple rippy maps with lack of knowledge how some mobs and mechanics work in this game and when they die to a revenant or a signalled detonate dead then they swear in front of their monitors about the game and the devs, but most of the time they die because of their stupidity or zoom-zoom or lack of skills.

Look at Mathil in the Gauntlet race, he made that far with a build that had like 0 mitigation in an insanely rippy mod environment, because of pure skill.

The reason ssf hc guys can make that far in races even with crap gear is because of experiance what they encounter on maps and also skill.

We softcore plebs have to look at ourselves and learn how to play this game. Slow down, learn and progress. Also: avoid stuff, reroll maps for less quant but without stacking rippy mods. Then you can level to 100. If you alch and go and then 'yolo' every map, open legions which stack insane auras with rippy map mods, you will die.

Stuff can off-screen you, but only when you roll a map in which they can off-screen you.

Harsh truth.

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benDammit wrote:

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plaguefear wrote:

My last char was a 6,800 life max block max spell block gladiator with its lowest res at 85%, it still died to stuff which made no sense.
A death penalty makes no sense when GGG has literally got a guy working for them who's job is to ruin peoples fun and make sure they die, its pathetic.

Said before many times to people, but if you have that much mitigation and still die in this game then 99% percent of the time it's your fault. People roll multiple rippy maps with lack of knowledge how some mobs and mechanics work in this game and when they die to a revenant or a signalled detonate dead then they swear in front of their monitors about the game and the devs, but most of the time they die because of their stupidity or zoom-zoom or lack of skills.

Look at Mathil in the Gauntlet race, he made that far with a build that had like 0 mitigation in an insanely rippy mod environment, because of pure skill.

The reason ssf hc guys can make that far in races even with crap gear is because of experiance what they encounter on maps and also skill.

We softcore plebs have to look at ourselves and learn how to play this game. Slow down, learn and progress. Also: avoid stuff, reroll maps for less quant but without stacking rippy mods. Then you can level to 100. If you alch and go and then 'yolo' every map, open legions which stack insane auras with rippy map mods, you will die.

Stuff can off-screen you, but only when you roll a map in which they can off-screen you.

Harsh truth.

Great idea lets balance the game around professional streamers with the reflexes of a cat..

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plaguefear wrote:

Great idea lets balance the game around professional streamers with the reflexes of a cat..

It's not about being a professional or having the reflexes of a cat, it's about a willingness to learn from your experience instead of just blaming the game for being unfair. Gear and stats alone won't make you immortal in this game. Knowledge does.