As a player that grinded more than others for his level 100 character - by the way, I have actually gained enough EXP to level from 99 to 100 3 damn times, just because I didn't chickened out, and until I forfeited my goal of leveling my main with my own build via dual wielding RT REAL MELEE versus ONLY END GAME CONTENT - the last 70% were fast-tracked via solo T15 Beachheads, because it simply wasn't "FUN" to lose another 10% EXP the 23rd time - I can attest that getting level 100 is simply a TIME SINK.
How long did T15 Beachheads for 99 -> 100 take?
Like, how many runs did you need?
Or if that's an easier measure, how many runs for 1%?
Actually, you get about ~1.5% EXP for 2 Beachheads, so about 15% every 20 maps, I ran less than 90 to get from 99 to 100 (started from 99.30%).
Pure breachstones and 4-5 way emblem runs are also faster, but Beachheads are the safest...
I also fully clear maps, though I started to consider those Beachheads cleared with <10 enemies remaining, and I'm also slow as I'm a casual n00b hoarder that picks up most drops, so I took my time.
My gripe with the death EXP penalty resides in the artificial EXP gain penalty and the lack of incentive EXP wise to run difficult end game content - in Delirium, TencentGGG actually "grew some" and instead of the mindlessly easy Beachheads, pure breachstones or 5 way emblem runs, they had Simulacrum runs provide about 2% on the EXP bar for each successful run.
TencentGGG should have scaled the level of the content to at least 90, while scaling the difficulty akin to Delve (just like they managed with Delirium), and simply let the danger/reward ratio to scale properly even EXP wise...
PS: I know I can fast track whatever character I want to 100 as long as I abuse a "sanctioned cheat" and I can get it even faster if I further abuse "meta" items/skills/mechanics and/or interactions, but why not let us "n00bs" improve by actually running the harshest content and progress by simply playing it?
PSS: Our almighty TencentGGG overlords are very scrupulous regarding criticizing their abilities to take proper decisions and consider everything "needlessly harsh and condescending"...
Good to know "free speech" doesn't apply in any form or manner on the forums these days...
Last edited by sofocle10000#6408 on Aug 18, 2020, 11:45:55 PM
the guy never got past lvl 91... omg dude, im lol so hard, this game man, some memes sometimes turn into reality damn...
I miss harvest, 36/40 never forget.
Mirror drop - Strand clear speed meta legacy league month "5"
Mirror drop - Canyon casual farming harby ultimatum league month "1"
now i'm a main standard league player.
league content on standard when? GGG! show us some love.
As a player that grinded more than others for his level 100 character - by the way, I have actually gained enough EXP to level from 99 to 100 3 damn times, just because I didn't chickened out, and until I forfeited my goal of leveling my main with my own build via dual wielding RT REAL MELEE versus ONLY END GAME CONTENT - the last 70% were fast-tracked via solo T15 Beachheads, because it simply wasn't "FUN" to lose another 10% EXP the 23rd time - I can attest that getting level 100 is simply a TIME SINK.
How long did T15 Beachheads for 99 -> 100 take?
Like, how many runs did you need?
Or if that's an easier measure, how many runs for 1%?
Actually, you get about ~1.5% EXP for 2 Beachheads, so about 15% every 20 maps, I ran less than 90 to get from 99 to 100 (started from 99.30%).
Pure breachstones and 4-5 way emblem runs are also faster, but Beachheads are the safest...
I also fully clear maps, though I started to consider those Beachheads cleared with <10 enemies remaining, and I'm also slow as I'm a casual n00b hoarder that picks up most drops, so I took my time.
My gripe with the death EXP penalty resides in the artificial EXP gain penalty and the lack of incentive EXP wise to run difficult end game content - in Delirium, TencentGGG actually "grew some" and instead of the mindlessly easy Beachheads, pure breachstones or 5 way emblem runs, they had Simulacrum runs provide about 2% on the EXP bar for each successful run.
TencentGGG should have scaled the level of the content to at least 90, while scaling the difficulty akin to Delve (just like they managed with Delirium), and simply let the danger/reward ratio to scale properly even EXP wise...
PS: I know I can fast track whatever character I want to 100 as long as I abuse a "sanctioned cheat" and I can get it even faster if I further abuse "meta" items/skills/mechanics and/or interactions, but why not let us "n00bs" improve by actually running the harshest content and progress by simply playing it?
The penalty, for casual players that don't cheese the content, quickly becomes abusive (a week of grinding is absurd).
And the worse in this is that it doesn't push you to become better and push for stronger content. Instead, it pushes you to avoid any risky content, thus letting your skill slowly die out.
Why would anyone push to become better if things were made easier? Logic does not follow. If anything, players would not care about death anymore if death penalty is removed, so they would also stop caring about their character and build/items.
Problem is not 5 more passives. The huge and main problem with death penalty is:
F R U S T R A T I O N.
Imagine you play for hours a day and for a single lag spike you lose all the progress of a whole day. It feels like wasted time, wasted live.
Some people play past 95 for a sense of progress, and it makes them feel good to see they can progress toward max level, after all past 95 it's hours and hours of grinding most unbalanced/poorly designed content, it DO feel good to end a day and know you are closer to the next goal.
And then you get a random one shot, a bad lag spike, a second not paying attention, a visual clusterfuck where you can't see that DD, and blamo! All that goes to nothing, with no chance to get it back.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but back when I decided to give PoE a try after D3 fiasco every information I gathered didn't say PoE was a rage game a la Dark Souls. It said ARPG. And no ARPGs in the time have such a frustrating mechanic like this. And every ARPG I played since Diablo had never a mechaninc that you lose progress without any chance to recover, at least the most part, what you lost. Running back to corpse, spending money, etc, but you DID have a mean to recover.
Even Souls Series wich is a rage game that you will rage and frustrate a lot of times it does have a mean to recover your progress (souls), and if you really "git gud" you will do it and never lose it again for the same reason. And that feel double the reward: you overcome the initial frustration of losing souls and overcome the new challenge to recover what you lost, you "got gud", improved.
PoE on the other side has only frustration. First and foremost because 90% of your deaths are out of your control, so it's double frustration: you lose exp and lose it because whatever else happens, not because you are playing poorly or didn't make a good build. Damn even OP summoners back in Blight died from time to time because of random shit. Voices builds this league doesn't count they are broken and the game is broken, they will have a fix in the future.
So many of this kind of posts are because the frustration that PoE death penalty system is. GGG doesn't seen to care, so it will never change. Some people deal better than others with frustration, some don't. But I doubt that anyone play games to get frustrated, we already have real life for that.
"Bad build", "git gud", "play HC", all these bullshit will not fix nor contribute to the discussion, save your breath. You know all these are wrong and has no place in this kind of discussion.
Unless GGGCent want to adress the psychological part of death penalty, all this is an exercise in futility.
"There's no thing like random one-shots in this game. You only die because you take 353,456,237 hits in 0.2 seconds."
"The best items in the game should not be crafted, they should be TRADED." - Cent, GGG
Problem is not 5 more passives. The huge and main problem with death penalty is:
F R U S T R A T I O N.
Imagine you play for hours a day and for a single lag spike you lose all the progress of a whole day. It feels like wasted time, wasted live.
Some people play past 95 for a sense of progress, and it makes them feel good to see they can progress toward max level, after all past 95 it's hours and hours of grinding most unbalanced/poorly designed content, it DO feel good to end a day and know you are closer to the next goal.
And then you get a random one shot, a bad lag spike, a second not paying attention, a visual clusterfuck where you can't see that DD, and blamo! All that goes to nothing, with no chance to get it back.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but back when I decided to give PoE a try after D3 fiasco every information I gathered didn't say PoE was a rage game a la Dark Souls. It said ARPG. And no ARPGs in the time have such a frustrating mechanic like this. And every ARPG I played since Diablo had never a mechaninc that you lose progress without any chance to recover, at least the most part, what you lost. Running back to corpse, spending money, etc, but you DID have a mean to recover.
Even Souls Series wich is a rage game that you will rage and frustrate a lot of times it does have a mean to recover your progress (souls), and if you really "git gud" you will do it and never lose it again for the same reason. And that feel double the reward: you overcome the initial frustration of losing souls and overcome the new challenge to recover what you lost, you "got gud", improved.
PoE on the other side has only frustration. First and foremost because 90% of your deaths are out of your control, so it's double frustration: you lose exp and lose it because whatever else happens, not because you are playing poorly or didn't make a good build. Damn even OP summoners back in Blight died from time to time because of random shit. Voices builds this league doesn't count they are broken and the game is broken, they will have a fix in the future.
So many of this kind of posts are because the frustration that PoE death penalty system is. GGG doesn't seen to care, so it will never change. Some people deal better than others with frustration, some don't. But I doubt that anyone play games to get frustrated, we already have real life for that.
"Bad build", "git gud", "play HC", all these bullshit will not fix nor contribute to the discussion, save your breath. You know all these are wrong and has no place in this kind of discussion.
Unless GGGCent want to adress the psychological part of death penalty, all this is an exercise in futility.
Its not like PoE veterans dont get it and you need to spell it out for them.
For them its just not about the penalty. Its about players coming from other games (which failed), seeking refuge here and being welcomed - just to then demand to change all rules to their liking, totally ignoring the games history and what the old guards want/like whatever who have been around here for much much longer and helped to shape PoE.
You dont get to show up and then demand change.
Go seek refuge somewhere else if you dont like it here. Its that simple.
Its not like PoE veterans dont get it and you need to spell it out for them.
For them its just not about the penalty. Its about players coming from other games (which failed), seeking refuge here and being welcomed - just to then demand to change all rules to their liking, totally ignoring the games history and what the old guards want/like whatever who have been around here for much much longer and helped to shape PoE.
You dont get to show up and then demand change.
Go seek refuge somewhere else if you dont like it here. Its that simple.
You didn't get my point with this post. If exp loss is ok, not having any means to recover at least a portion of it is not. Charan nailed it earlier here.
IMHO since PoE is not a hardcore game like the "veterans" claim it is there's no point in having it. Even the hardest of the hard core games have means of recovering a portion of lost progress.
"There's no thing like random one-shots in this game. You only die because you take 353,456,237 hits in 0.2 seconds."
"The best items in the game should not be crafted, they should be TRADED." - Cent, GGG
IMHO since PoE is not a hardcore game like the "veterans" claim it is there's no point in having it. Even the hardest of the hard core games have means of recovering a portion of lost progress.
Thats your opinion and thats fine.
Doesnt mean you are right though.
I like the penalty and Id quit the game if it was removed.
If you were able to reclaim the lost xp, its not a penalty is it?
Its just a minor inconvenience and nothing more - just like losing a portal.
Being able to do stuff deathless has to have meaning and thats what the penalty provides.
And your premise (90% of all deaths arent the players fault) is wrong. It couldnt be further from the truth.
YOU rolled the map
YOU decided to run the map
YOU made the wrong call and YOU pay for it
Thats covering like 99% of all deaths right there.
The missing 1% are technical issues that are simply to be expected in an online game.
Charan´s and other peoples opinion, that PoE doesnt respect the players time and its a waste of time and whatnot is inherently flawed.
Playing video games in itself is a massive waste of time, doesnt even matter which game you are playing. You will never accomplish anything meaningful by playing games.
And guess who made the decision to waste the time? Right, it was you and me and everyone else here.
Its not like PoE veterans dont get it and you need to spell it out for them.
For them its just not about the penalty. Its about players coming from other games (which failed), seeking refuge here and being welcomed - just to then demand to change all rules to their liking, totally ignoring the games history and what the old guards want/like whatever who have been around here for much much longer and helped to shape PoE.
You dont get to show up and then demand change.
Go seek refuge somewhere else if you dont like it here. Its that simple.
You didn't get my point with this post. If exp loss is ok, not having any means to recover at least a portion of it is not. Charan nailed it earlier here.
IMHO since PoE is not a hardcore game like the "veterans" claim it is there's no point in having it. Even the hardest of the hard core games have means of recovering a portion of lost progress.
I've posted this numerous times but it never seems to gain much traction in discussion, What if they added in some items that were consumable upon death while in the inventory.
These items depending on the rarity would reduce exp lost by a % upon death and would consume the highest tier in your inventory first, The method of obtaining these fragments should be done in a way that anyone can reliably get x amount of some tier of these for x amount of time invested similar to how the syndicate worked in betrayal league i felt the method of obtaining scarabs and their tiers was well done and a similar system would work well here.. The consumables obtained in tiers from this would be say 1 2 and 3 maximum obtainable from the event.
Merging these items into stronger versions could be a thing to also encourage further consumption of them on the market but i feel like if that is a thing it should require the player to go through some kind of event similar to a master mission to be able to upgrade x amount of fragments into a higher tier and require a minimum Monster Level to be able to upgrade them to that point.. Additionally where these consumables have a maximum of tier 3 as a drop they can be upgraded through merging to tiers 4 5 and 6.
(don't quote me on the tier numbers)
These would take up more than a single slot of inventory space so you would not likely want to carry a bunch of them or have too many in storage either encouraging hopefully people selling off excess or using them up.. And they would get used up if any of the countless exp loss threads would indicate.. These items would take up less slots at lower tiers and more slots at higher tiers further deepening the cost of them versus their reward as the more items you can carry with you the more money you have to further your character.. This gives a natural advantage to players who do not utilize these consumable items
Using these items however i feel like should remove you from the pool of people who can receiving rewards such as demigod items/etc, If it were up to me i'd even say mark characters who have used one of these items forever but that does feel kind of petty so i'd rather not see them do that, not being applicable for special rewards for achieving things above all other players is more than enough.
That is the only way i see exp loss reduction happening and making any sense and GGG could fine tune the drop/event appearance rates on those items until there's a nice balance between making currency and having that exp safety net when you are trying to push levels in hard content.
Innocence forgives you
Last edited by SilentSymphony#3358 on Aug 19, 2020, 8:37:52 AM
Example: when I say 90% of deaths aren't player's fault I really mean that.
If I rolled the map, if I decided to run the map, if I made the call and faile it's MY fault and I'm ok when I die because of MY fault. Many people don't realize that and blame others for their fault. I don't.
Example: I decided to run a map with extra lightning damage, extra damage and extra speed. As soon as the legion fight started the loading lag was more than 2 seconds and I died. Zero frustration here. Zero blaming. Zero raging.
On the other hand I was running atzoatl with no dangerous mods, was at 90% to the next level so I was in defensive mode. On the boss suddenly the game crashes. No internet issues, no memory use issues, no videoboard issues, no hd issues, just a simple and play crash because of whatever the game crash. I log back and... 80%.
THAT is frustration. THAT needs to be adressed. THAT is not ok.
Or will you say I decided to run the risk of a crash and that's ok?
Also, if you think playing a video game is a waste of time... Lol, I won't even discuss this.
"There's no thing like random one-shots in this game. You only die because you take 353,456,237 hits in 0.2 seconds."
"The best items in the game should not be crafted, they should be TRADED." - Cent, GGG
Last edited by frostzor27#1802 on Aug 19, 2020, 9:24:57 AM
