Time Capsule from PoE Closed Beta -- a classic PoE vs D3 thread circa 2012

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miljan wrote:

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Tagek wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Diablo 3 did a lot of thing wrong.

One of biggest is that it's not fun anymore to lvl. After you get skills you need you are done. Nothing more to wait for, all is automatically done by computer becouse it thinks you're too stupid to do it yourself (or is it maybe blizzard that thinks that). They succeeded to kill one of the funniest part for me in any rpg game. Its just boring.

Also replayability from d2 comes from trying different build, and finding items for that build. Now, there are no builds you just change them on fly. WTF? And they call it it a diablo 3...boring. Good that killing is fun... for some time, when you can see what is hapening on screen if you have 2 players playing together. No wonder there is limit of only 4 players with no mercenaries.

Diablo 2's replay value never came from rerolling.
Unless you consider spending about 5 hours boosting a character 'fun'. The real replayability came from actually using different builds, which diablo 3 actually has more of than D2, and the item hunting.

Never comed from rerolling? Lol. Yee, you know how I and others played the game. A big number of people (almost my whole guild)actually played the game with rerolling. I'm not talking about rushing the game (thats not playing), but playing it with you different build from beginning, learning there weekneses. Free respect shurley doesn't add to replayability, and makes your chooses not that important.

It has more builds (i would not call them that becouse you have all skills availebel to you, so you just choose what skill you want when you want without bonding with you character), becouse of a lot more skills.

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Tagek wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Never comed from rerolling? Lol. Yee, you know how I and others played the game. A big number of people (almost my whole guild)actually played the game with rerolling. I'm not talking about rushing the game (thats not playing), but playing it with you different build from beginning, learning there weekneses. Free respect shurley doesn't add to replayability, and makes your chooses not that important.

It has more builds (i would not call them that becouse you have all skills availebel to you, so you just choose what skill you want when you want without bonding with you character), becouse of a lot more skills.

Nope, the vast majority of time playing a character came from actually playing with the character, not leveling it up. If you play it purely for the 'while leveling' experience then yes, you can say it has lost replay value for you personally.
But in general all it lost is tediousness.

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Tagek wrote:

To be honest, you're still a hero.
Honestly, do you really think if you were exiled to some fucked up place your first reaction would not be to go find food, but to beat your way through hordes of demons and undead to defeat an even stronger demon? No.
Sure, you don't come there with the intention of being a hero, but you still become one.

As for the combat I do actually think it is a little slow right now.
This is not because of the actual combat mechanics, but because (as I've mentioned before) there are only skills that would be 'low level' in other ARPGS.
Once they add actual cool abilities this will be solved.

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miljan wrote:

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Tagek wrote:

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miljan wrote:

Never comed from rerolling? Lol. Yee, you know how I and others played the game. A big number of people (almost my whole guild)actually played the game with rerolling. I'm not talking about rushing the game (thats not playing), but playing it with you different build from beginning, learning there weekneses. Free respect shurley doesn't add to replayability, and makes your chooses not that important.

It has more builds (i would not call them that becouse you have all skills availebel to you, so you just choose what skill you want when you want without bonding with you character), becouse of a lot more skills.

Nope, the vast majority of time playing a character came from actually playing with the character, not leveling it up. If you play it purely for the 'while leveling' experience then yes, you can say it has lost replay value for you personally.
But in general all it lost is tediousness.

If it lost tediousness then you never had fun playing the game in the first place. One of the reasons rpg games and arpg are fun because you lvl your character, from a week to a powerful hero.

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Tagek wrote:

Nope, the vast majority of time playing a character came from actually playing with the character, not leveling it up. If you play it purely for the 'while leveling' experience then yes, you can say it has lost replay value for you personally.
But in general all it lost is tediousness.

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Tagek wrote:

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Avireyn wrote:

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Tagek wrote:

To be honest, you're still a hero.
Honestly, do you really think if you were exiled to some fucked up place your first reaction would not be to go find food, but to beat your way through hordes of demons and undead to defeat an even stronger demon? No.
Sure, you don't come there with the intention of being a hero, but you still become one.

As for the combat I do actually think it is a little slow right now.
This is not because of the actual combat mechanics, but because (as I've mentioned before) there are only skills that would be 'low level' in other ARPGS.
Once they add actual cool abilities this will be solved.

I think we differ on what "being a hero" entails, because I very much concur with Charan's assessment. I think it's the motivations of your character that count, not the "everyone who slaughters hordes of foes is a hero" argument.

Let's start with Diablo:

You play a character that investigates the labyrinth beneath Tristram for their own ends. Iirc, the mage seeks knowledge, the rogue riches, and the warrior has come home only to find the town in disarray.
Only in the course of the game we "become" heroes by finding out what really lurks beneath the doomed town and defeating it. It's something I like: character (motivation) progression.

In Diablo II, things were (afaik) never really explained as to why you were there. You're just the guy/gal who defeats the big bad, because that's what Diablo is about.

In Diablo III (as far as I can make out) you already start out as the hero. You're special from the start, and everybody's falling over telling you how awesomesauce you are (most egregiously demonstrated to me with the ludicrous Demon Hunter trailer. God, that thing is terribad.)
FOR THE GREATER GOOD!


And that's another thing I like about PoE: You're not the Sue Goody-Two-Shoes expy for Superman from the very start. You're (potentially) a being primarily out for him/herself and doing whatever is needed to survive/gain power.
Really nicely shown by the fact that you can strike a deal with the bandits in Act II.

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Avireyn wrote:

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Tagek wrote:

Nope, the vast majority of time playing a character came from actually playing with the character, not leveling it up. If you play it purely for the 'while leveling' experience then yes, you can say it has lost replay value for you personally.
But in general all it lost is tediousness.

That might be true for you. It isn't and never has been true for me. I play RPGs of all kinds because I like the levelling process. I actually can't stand the stagnancy "end game" *shudder* provides.

Consequently, I played Diablo (II, Torchlight etc) like this. Roll a character with a concept for it. Play it from scratch to max level (or until it becomes boring). Do not let you "rush" to high levels. This way, I've levelled almost every class/combination in every RPG I play. I generally do not know jack about that mystic end game. but I know and love the levelling process to a tee.


I get that for you, Diablo etc. are about playing the game on max level. That's valid. But please don't think that everybody plays your way.

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miljan wrote:

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Tagek wrote:

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Lol man, you said it that you were bored playing the game, that it's boring to level and play until end game. Or maybe I don't understand the meaning of word tediousness? And for me, and a lot of people was mostly about the game and leveling, not only the end game.

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Tagek wrote:

I'm not sure why you posted this, as I acknowledged that people like different things in the very post you quoted... 'If you play it purely for the 'while leveling' experience then yes, you can say it has lost replay value for you personally.'