Whats the point of changing ascenday but still forcing lab?

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Orbaal wrote:

It has to include a comparable downside to what lab is right now...

I hear this statement a lot in threads like these. And I mean A LOT. This forum isn't exactly crawling with Lab defenders (go figure), but those who are here are fond of making this statement. Again and again and again.

I've never understood it.

A fun challenge is not a downside, so why is fulfilling a fun challenge not considered a sufficient condition for the acquisition of in-game growth? It makes no sense.

Here's what I think: No downsides are necessary in this, or any other, game. A challenge is perfectly adequate for gating any gain to power. A challenge does not HAVE to be unfun to be adequate.

Fortunately, GGG's behavior indicates that they are no less seduced by this statement than I am, but I am curious why this bizarre argument continues to be trotted out.

So now it is you who decides what is fun?

Challenge is a challenge. I find it fun and motivating and enjoy my time spent in the lab. You dont.

And suddenly your definition of fun is more important? Your entire crusade revolves around you not having fun. Remind me: since when it is an argument?

We like different things and as long as all you have to talk about is you having fun then.. well.. there is nothing of value to diascuss.

This is a game. It has its rules. Its challenges. You do not like it? Leave. I do not like current lame clear speed meta because imo it turned great game dumb. But it is just my personal opinion. I wont post toxic rambles time and time.and time again and form a cruaade. Ill just leave when i reach breaking point.

So why you cannot do that?

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Orbaal wrote:

It has to include a comparable downside to what lab is right now...

Fortunately, GGG's behavior indicates that they are no less seduced by this statement than I am, but I am curious why this bizarre argument continues to be trotted out.

Thats a bold claim, when one of the core design decisions is and was to attach downsides or opportunity costs to pretty much everything.
Like a random unique item, that enables something but doesnt provide res or life as a downside.
Thats part of GGGs core philosophy and why wouldnt it apply to the only powercreep you can farm deterministically in this game?

Besides that:
Fun is subjective, not objective. Lab is a great example for that. It IS fun for some people.
But unfortunately whats fun to me isnt necessarily fun to you and vise versa.
Therefore a fun challenge cannot exist in reality.

This whole thread is a trainwreck.

Lab is fun.
Deal with it


It's word against word. You don't like lab? Ok, you don't have to like every aspect of game. It takes about 30min (or less if you at least don't force yourself to think lab is evil) to complete all 4 labs compared to 10h of acts i hate from the bottom of my heart.

We can't get everything we want. Im also very unhappy with current lab status. It used to be so much fun but people like you took most of it, nerfing (casualing) lab.
If I only could i would be really happy how we obtain asc. points and bring back old challenging lab.
Sadly my opinion doesn't matter and nobody is going to spend $ to make this part of content very enjoyable again. Lab now is only fun but no longer exciting :c

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karoollll2534 wrote:

Lab is fun.
Deal with it


It's word against word. You don't like lab? Ok, you don't have to like every aspect of game. It takes about 30min (or less if you at least don't force yourself to think lab is evil) to complete all 4 labs compared to 10h of acts i hate from the bottom of my heart.

We can't get everything we want. Im also very unhappy with current lab status. It used to be so much fun but people like you took most of it, nerfing (casualing) lab.
If I only could i would be really happy how we obtain asc. points and bring back old challenging lab.
Sadly my opinion doesn't matter and nobody is going to spend $ to make this part of content very enjoyable again. Lab now is only fun but no longer exciting :c

Here's something you might want to consider if you liked lab the way it was.

Lab is the single most disliked / hated part of the game. It's been ragequit material for a lot of players ever since it was first introduced and it still is. It's been over a year and a half since it was introduced and we still have new players starting "WTF is this?" threads about lab and more experienced players whose frustration boils over from time to time and who show up here to post as well. It's about as productive to try to tell the waves not to come to shore or the wind not to blow as it is to spend time carrying on about those criticizing lab.

Rather than railing against those who voice their dislike or hatred about lab, you might want to consider asking that an alternative to lab be put in place for gaining prestige class skills. Then lab could be brought back to its former state for those who really liked it the way it was.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Lab is the single most disliked / hated part of the game. It's been ragequit material for a lot of players ever since it was first introduced and it still is.

*Citation needed

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sidtherat wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Lab is the single most disliked / hated part of the game. It's been ragequit material for a lot of players ever since it was first introduced and it still is.

*Citation needed

Please see: all of the forums.

you confuse opinions with facts

if someone states things like he/she did - it is better supported with facts, data

otherwise it is just babling

note: all kind of 'give me something good for free' movements attract huge crowds just because of a) current mentality among young people who expect the word to change around them b) less effort is good(TM) c) the chance of success is low but the cost is even lower so why not try and maybe there actually will be some free things for nothing?

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ciel289 wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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Xtorma wrote:

I want to be able to skip act 4, but still get the rewards.

Please take your off topic posts someplace else.

its neither a nice post nor a very imformative one,but it isnt as off topic as you want it to be.
Removing act 4 isnt much difrrent than removeing the lab. Yes lab is a bit diffrent than other content,but its still killing monsters and dodgin skillshots from boss.
With the new darkshrines you always get one of remove lab from izarro or rdeuces their dmg by 50%,all you have to do for that is to go for all shrines.
If you dont like it run it once and be done with it. You keep saying lab is easy as some others so there is absolutly no reason to do anything to lab. We all have certain parts we dont like in some GAmes,but they take up such a small portion of the game that it is irrelevant.

Based on the fact that people stop playing PoE or stop donating to GGG because of the labyrinth or the lab disgust pouring out on these forums, it is apparently not as irrelevant as you claim.

Also, we're not campaigning for removal of labyrinth so his off topic post is not at all on topic.