Feedback and Suggestions - Whats the point of changing ascenday but still forcing lab? - Forum

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Turtledove wrote:

A minor tangent to your Frogger comment, for trap game play, Frogger beats the mediocre Labyrinth hands down for fun trap game play. For example, a good improvement to labyrinth would be to be able to use the keyboard arrow keys to maneuver one's character through the traps. It would still probably be mediocre compared to Frogger but it would be better than the current loathsome labyrinth.

This is an intriguing idea.

I've been thinking about what makes Frogger fun and playable and I came to more or less the same conclusion as you: Precision. Similarly, the relatively lower precision of a mouse probably makes trap maneuvering a lot less fun for certain players.

I wonder how it is on Xbox, but I suspect it isn't much better, since an analogue stick is not really any more precise.

Now, there is an argument made (and a pretty strong one at that) by Labyrinth apologists that development of mouse precision is necessary for players regardless, given GGG's propensity for spamming shit everywhere in boss arenas. But there's also a group of people who think this too is a bad thing (perhaps for similar reasons?), some of whom even skip bosses in maps.

In any case, positioning and piloting skills will always be necessary in an ARPG of this nature, with perhaps the exception of super-cheesy meta builds. I think designing content with the existing control scheme in mind is a superior approach to introducing a new one.

I'm just thinking out loud here, so opposing viewpoints are welcome.

Wash your hands, Exile!

Posted by
gibbousmoon#4656
on Feb 25, 2018, 7:34:16 PM

Quote this Post

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gibbousmoon wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

A minor tangent to your Frogger comment, for trap game play, Frogger beats the mediocre Labyrinth hands down for fun trap game play. For example, a good improvement to labyrinth would be to be able to use the keyboard arrow keys to maneuver one's character through the traps. It would still probably be mediocre compared to Frogger but it would be better than the current loathsome labyrinth.

This is an intriguing idea.

I've been thinking about what makes Frogger fun and playable and I came to more or less the same conclusion as you: Precision. Similarly, the relatively lower precision of a mouse probably makes trap maneuvering a lot less fun for certain players.

I wonder how it is on Xbox, but I suspect it isn't much better, since an analogue stick is not really any more precise.

Now, there is an argument made (and a pretty strong one at that) by Labyrinth apologists that development of mouse precision is necessary for players regardless, given GGG's propensity for spamming shit everywhere in boss arenas. But there's also a group of people who think this too is a bad thing (perhaps for similar reasons?), some of whom even skip bosses in maps.

In any case, positioning and piloting skills will always be necessary in an ARPG of this nature, with perhaps the exception of super-cheesy meta builds. I think designing content with the existing control scheme in mind is a superior approach to introducing a new one.

I'm just thinking out loud here, so opposing viewpoints are welcome.

When fighting a screen full of monsters you can't see much of the ground so I might have to hit 'Z' to turn off all dropped-item tags. Even then moving someplace with a movement skill or a direct movement, you might have a slight difficulty even locating a clear spot if the area has ground effects because of all the effects and monsters on the screen. The point is that claiming one needs mouse precision when fighting a screen full of monsters is a really weak argument, IMHO. It's pretty much only a labyrinth requirement in PoE.

I definitely agree with your point, "I think designing content with the existing control scheme in mind is a superior approach to introducing a new one." Unfortunately GGG turned into blundering nincompoops when designing labyrinth and missed that point.

Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!