Whats the point of changing ascenday but still forcing lab?

biggest problem with lab is, it completely ignore the defense the player had.

higher hit point guy get punish more than glass cannon. This sucks.

Lab traps should do flat damage. not by %

Lab should be removed from the game.... actually, it can stay, just make ascendancy part of the campaign.

make lab much, much harder with more traps that do a lot more damage, but offer more keys to make the reward greater. this way people who want to run lab, can do it to their heart content and people who utterly hate it will never have to step a foot inside.

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Miazga wrote:

Lab should be removed from the game.... actually, it can stay, just make ascendancy part of the campaign.

Nope.

I dont like lab at all, but I do understand, respect and support the design decision, that there has to be downside attached to the powercreep.
You cant demand ascendancy points to be regular quest rewards. Thats insane.

If GGG did that, whats next?
Demanding 6l chests as quest reward cause you cant be asked to work for rewards like that?

"

Orbaal wrote:

"

Miazga wrote:

Lab should be removed from the game.... actually, it can stay, just make ascendancy part of the campaign.

Nope.

I dont like lab at all, but I do understand, respect and support the design decision, that there has to be downside attached to the powercreep.
You cant demand ascendancy points to be regular quest rewards. Thats insane.

If GGG did that, whats next?
Demanding 6l chests as quest reward cause you cant be asked to work for rewards like that?

Lab isn't hard for experienced players. It's just an annoying mini-game that you drag your characters through. As a bonus, the lore is unusually badly thought through, even in a genre where lore is not necessarily always a key focus. This enhances the out-of-place feeling of lab in the game and makes going through the process feel even more silly, given the end goal.

As for those who are less experienced and struggling, it's an arbitrarily constructed line of reasoning to argue that the specific challenges set in place are challenges that make any kind of sense to put players through to define their characters.

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

As for those who are less experienced and struggling, it's an arbitrarily constructed line of reasoning to argue that the specific challenges set in place are challenges that make any kind of sense to put players through to define their characters.

True, but to me thats irrelevant because you can easily overlevel and outgear normal to merciless lab.
Uber lab is a different story but its optional anyways for most builds - so that doesnt matter either.
Given the fact, that the 3 out 4 lab difficulty tiers can easily be trivialized, there is zero room left for complaints other than "I dont like it" - which is nothing but an opinion or preference.

If opinions or preferences would matter for game development, we wouldnt even have a game to begin with.
There are people in the community not liking the Atlas. What do we do?
Ignore them or remove Atlas? Feelings trump, so removal it is.
And why stop there? Lets have a straw poll for each and every feature in the game.
If someone doesnt like it - remove it.

And all the sudden we are down to the login screen...


Feelings and opinions do not matter and game development isnt a democratic process.

Lab is not fun, requires you to build a certain way just to do it and repetitive as fuck. Every time a new league comes out the only thing that doesnt change is how youre going to fight izaro. It optional content that is not optional because everyone is forced to do it.

So what happens, you pay somoene 3 chaos to stand at the door while they finish it for you, what is the goddamned point of that?

Just make 4 boss battles for it that are weaved into the campaign or hell, randomly found in maps. I want to kill things, not navigate scenery and stand in corners every 15 seconds because bleeding.

You guys all acting like lab is some amazing feat, as if creating some regen build to conquer it is some point of talent. I know how to beat lab, doesnt change the fact that i dont want to do it on every character and it is largely a contributing factor to why i only play 1 or 2 characters per league.

Hey why not force 2 ascendancy points behind pvp while we are at locking progression beyhind optional game modes. Because that is what lab is, an optional game mode and there should be nothing revolving around character progression locked in it.

"

Orbaal wrote:

"

EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

As for those who are less experienced and struggling, it's an arbitrarily constructed line of reasoning to argue that the specific challenges set in place are challenges that make any kind of sense to put players through to define their characters.

True, but to me thats irrelevant because you can easily overlevel and outgear normal to merciless lab.
Uber lab is a different story but its optional anyways for most builds - so that doesnt matter either.
Given the fact, that the 3 out 4 lab difficulty tiers can easily be trivialized, there is zero room left for complaints other than "I dont like it" - which is nothing but an opinion or preference.

If opinions or preferences would matter for game development, we wouldnt even have a game to begin with.
There are people in the community not liking the Atlas. What do we do?
Ignore them or remove Atlas? Feelings trump, so removal it is.
And why stop there? Lets have a straw poll for each and every feature in the game.
If someone doesnt like it - remove it.

And all the sudden we are down to the login screen...


Feelings and opinions do not matter and game development isnt a democratic process.

This is a "slippery slope" argument, which is a known fallacy, and it doesn't fit the historical narrative for POE. There have been numerous changes over the years in response to player feedback (including to lab) and we are further than ever from having just a log in screen because the game just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

The above argument is particularly out-of-place for lab because the case has been made for providing another option to ascend, and not to delete lab from the game (some like lab, and why muck things up for those who enjoy lab?). It strains credulity beyond its limits to paint a scenario in which the login screen is all that's left when what's being proposed is to add something to the game.

More generally, saying "We don't enjoy <>" is one of the most helpful kinds of feedback to provide to a game developer, especially in this case for which the subject of feedback is the single most hated part of the game (lab).

I participated on countless lab love/hate threads, but I swear this is the last time. GGG give this topic a deaf ear anyway.

Yeah, just take some medicine to see everything in haze, then stumble through the Lab, then wipe that event from memory by adding more medicine and never look back. That way, your ascendancy points sort of... happened.

Is it a good design to force me to do something I dislike? I don't know. Chris says it needs to be done, so let us be over with it.

"

deserttfoxx wrote:

Lab is not fun, requires you to build a certain way just to do it and repetitive as fuck. Every time a new league comes out the only thing that doesnt change is how youre going to fight izaro. It optional content that is not optional because everyone is forced to do it.

Thats true for 100% of the content this game has to offer.
Nothing ever changes and everything is repetitive as hell. If thats an argument, GGG should delete the game and be done with it.

"

deserttfoxx wrote:

You guys all acting like lab is some amazing feat

No I dont.
I keep repeating in every single "I hate the lab" thread, that I do not like the lab.
But you guys make me defend this feature, because you want it removed based on your feeling/opinions, which would open the floodgates. It would set an example for everyone and everyone could come up with "I dont like feature X - remove it". How do you reject their proposals, when you caved in in another case?


You have to draw the line in the sand at some point and defend that line at all costs.
To me, this is one of those lines - despite the fact that I do not like the lab.

I can understand the frustrations with the lab, while I don't have a hard time running it... it doesn't feel right for this kind of game. But whether you enjoy it... or hate it.. or don't care, you have to understand they aren't going to just get rid of this piece of content they worked on.

They made the first 2 labs a joke, they nerfed izaro a few times.. its all on you now. There are a few ways to cheese the lab atm... take those and grab your points. You don't have to look back afterwards. It's one of the only things in this game where at the very least when you finish it, you get something 100% of the time out of it.