150 points map tab bollocks BONUS: Fragment tab is 75 points, totaling at 22,5$!

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

Perq wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

The problem is a self-inflicted one, you want to help new players "not spend" money on the game. GGG goal is to make them spend money on the game, what possible benefit do they have to lose on money on maybe the chance that someone will spend.

[...]

ONLY reason why GGG would do this is there is a benefit in giving something for free that in return will give them greater benefits.

You answer your own question here. :V I don't want to help new players to not spend money. I want new players to stick around, like the game because it has no bollocks like map stash of nowadays and then buy even the cheapest supporter pack. And then stick around for few more leagues, buy more packs, MTX, whatnot. Annoyed people don't seem to stick around for anything, I think.
People aren't buying packs because they need 100 stash tabs, which you stated yourself. You don't need that many stash tabs.

Because if I were to apply this cynical approach of if you don't force people to pay, they won't pay, why are people even buying supporter pack and (overpriced) cosmetic MTXes? They don't give us any in-game advantage?

Ps. Excuse me for having to explain to you how stash tabs work. You seemed to not know that they give you nice sales. :V And no, these 3 items aren't even close to value of what I linked.

You want new players to spend money by giving them free stuff that majority of casual players would just use and not bother buying the tabs anyway, since like I stated a mini-version of a map/currency/whatever else is more then enough for casual players. If I was going to play this game 100s+ hours anyway where I somehow need 500+ chaos orbs and more in my stash tab, I am highly likely to pay stash tabs anyway to support the game.

In f2p games the majority of accounts are funded by a smaller number of paying accounts. If I where to buy any support pack, I would have stash tabs anyway with the money you get from supporting the game.

Stuff like the currency stash tab and so on are useless for players that just beat the game act 1-10 and farm a little end-game and maybe get like a 3-5ex build that kills shaper. Mini-version of any stash tab is more than enough to fund this common playstyle of the game.

Which yet again is what I am talking about the attitude like you actually know everything, game was designed from day 1 with mtx + stash tabs. You think on the 5+ years PoE been in production and successful they never in their life considered the benefits vs downsides of giving out free variants or free stash tabs :V

Only free stash tab ever was given out was during the 1.0 releaseish for beta players for a celebration.

Neah, it just depends on what a "lite/demo" tab limits would be.

Those tabs shouldn't have the option of being "Public", so no advanced "trade".

The "lite/demo" of Currency tab could have a variable limit regarding currency stashed in it, so think about something like up to 1000 Wisdom/Portal scrolls, 750 Trans, 500 Aug, ..., 50 Chaos, 25 Exalted etc.

Same for Divination tab "lite/demo", it should "house" up to 10 sets of the most common ones, 5 full sets for those with a medium rarity an only one complete set for those very rare

For Essence @Perq already stated a perfectly viable proposal, so no "fast upgrade" and only up to 15 Essences of each kind should be kept in it.

The Map tab should keep at most 3 maps of each kind, tier and rarity.

But the "deal breaker" would be the lack of "trading" regarding said tabs.

Or GGG could go the other way, and emphasise "trading" via a Premium tab for each character that passed a certain level threshold, like 75 for instance...

PS: Nice edit, but you should also take into account that PoE GREW a lot since it's initial Closed Beta release, and it WILL CONTINUE TO GROW, and if anything, the last few leagues do put emphasis on the amount, so quantity will grow faster than quality, no matter your skillplay level...

I believe that either of my two proposed solutions were taken into account by GGG and one of them will be implemented in the future with CERTAINTY, as you could only add so much content that relies on "joggling" before the "initially designed experience" gets shadowed by the space constraints decisions...

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You want new players to spend money by giving them free stuff that majority of casual players would just use and not bother buying the tabs anyway, since like I stated a mini-version of a map/currency/whatever else is more then enough for casual players. If I was going to play this game 100s+ hours anyway where I somehow need 500+ chaos orbs and more in my stash tab, I am highly likely to pay stash tabs anyway to support the game.

In f2p games majority of accounts are funded by a smaller number of paying accounts.

Neah, it just depends on what a "lite/demo" tab limits would be.

Those tabs shouldn't have the option of being "Public", so no advanced "trade".

The "lite/demo" of Currency tab could have a variable limit regarding currency stashed in it, so think about something like up to 1000 Wisdom/Portal scrolls, 750 Trans, 500 Aug, ..., 50 Chaos, 25 Exalted etc.

Same for Divination tab "lite/demo", it should "house" up to 10 sets of the most common ones, 5 full sets for those with a medium rarity an only one complete set for those very rare

For Essence @Perq already stated a perfectly viable proposal, so no "fast upgrade" and only up to 15 Essences of each kind should be kept in it.

The Map tab should keep at most 3 maps of each kind, tier and rarity.

But the "deal breaker" would be the lack of "trading" regarding said tabs.

Or GGG could go the other way, and emphasise "trading" via a Premium tab for each character that passed a certain level threshold, like 75 for instance...

If the limits are too little then it's pointless, if it's just enough or better then most casual players wouldn't bother buying the upgrades.

Guys have to understand the playerbase of f2p games/PoE period. It's f2p players that won't spend money regardless, people who spend little $20 or under and people who spend $60/whale.

Any half decent mini-stash tab will 100% have the f2p players never upgrade to the $20 tier. Many $20 tier players wouldn't bother spending $5 on a stash tab or two if they just give out mini-ones. People who spend PoE like a regular game/a lot for packs to support the game wouldn't be affected.

So with any variant of free stash tab to make the game more "f2p friendly" you are adversely affecting the f2p to paying customer conversion and the small spenders.

Possible benefits would be:
1. More f2p friendly is good news/people recommend it to their friends/ect
Problem: Game is already considered at the top for f2p model and recommended everywhere as an arpg.

2. Get new players to convert upwards a spending tier because they stay in the game long enough.
Problem: Only time your effected by stash tabs if you beat the game acts 1-10 and farm end game long enough, thus if you weren't going to spend money $10-$20 then I don't know how giving you (little) more space will encourage you to spend more. Even if the currency stash tab holds 1/10th of the real one, okay how many casual players going to stock their stash tabs with 10ex + other currency. Leveling 1-90 hardly gives you 3 of every essence.

3. If we put them as achievements then people will play for them!
Problem: People wouldn't specifically play the game for extra stash far off in the future as a new player when they will not into 0 problems mentioned in this thread for my first 100 hours of gameplay.

I mean it might be different if this was diablo 2 where you can hold like 6 items in your bank before having to mule across 9 characters.]

An acutal benefit is to have the extra mini-stash tabs be just small enough that you want to upgrade, and then game does popups telling you how much a great deal it is to upgrade constantly :V

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You want new players to spend money by giving them free stuff that majority of casual players would just use and not bother buying the tabs anyway, since like I stated a mini-version of a map/currency/whatever else is more then enough for casual players. If I was going to play this game 100s+ hours anyway where I somehow need 500+ chaos orbs and more in my stash tab, I am highly likely to pay stash tabs anyway to support the game.

In f2p games majority of accounts are funded by a smaller number of paying accounts.

Neah, it just depends on what a "lite/demo" tab limits would be.

Those tabs shouldn't have the option of being "Public", so no advanced "trade".

The "lite/demo" of Currency tab could have a variable limit regarding currency stashed in it, so think about something like up to 1000 Wisdom/Portal scrolls, 750 Trans, 500 Aug, ..., 50 Chaos, 25 Exalted etc.

Same for Divination tab "lite/demo", it should "house" up to 10 sets of the most common ones, 5 full sets for those with a medium rarity an only one complete set for those very rare

For Essence @Perq already stated a perfectly viable proposal, so no "fast upgrade" and only up to 15 Essences of each kind should be kept in it.

The Map tab should keep at most 3 maps of each kind, tier and rarity.

But the "deal breaker" would be the lack of "trading" regarding said tabs.

Or GGG could go the other way, and emphasise "trading" via a Premium tab for each character that passed a certain level threshold, like 75 for instance...

If the limits are too little then it's pointless, if it's just enough or better then most casual players wouldn't bother buying the upgrades.

Guys have to understand the playerbase of f2p games/PoE period. It's f2p players that won't spend money regardless, people who spend little $20 or under and people who spend $60/whale.

Any half decent mini-stash tab will 100% have the f2p players never upgrade to the $20 tier. Many $20 tier players wouldn't bother spending $5 on a stash tab or two if they just give out mini-ones. People who spend PoE like a regular game/a lot for packs to support the game wouldn't be affected.

So with any variant of free stash tab to make the game more "f2p friendly" you are adversely affecting the f2p to paying customer conversion and the small spenders.

Possible benefits would be:
1. More f2p friendly is good news/people recommend it to their friends/ect
Problem: Game is already considered at the top for f2p model and recommended everywhere as an arpg.

2. Get new players to convert upwards a spending tier because they stay in the game long enough.
Problem: Only time your effected by stash tabs if you beat the game acts 1-10 and farm end game long enough, thus if you weren't going to spend money $10-$20 then I don't know how giving you (little) more space will encourage you to spend more. Even if the currency stash tab holds 1/10th of the real one, okay how many casual players going to stock their stash tabs with 10ex + other currency. Leveling 1-90 hardly gives you 3 of every essence.

3. If we put them as achievements then people will play for them!
Problem: People wouldn't specifically play the game for extra stash far off in the future as a new player when they will not into 0 problems mentioned in this thread for my first 100 hours of gameplay.

I mean it might be different if this was diablo 2 where you can hold like 6 items in your bank before having to mule across 9 characters.]

An acutal benefit is to have the extra mini-stash tabs be just small enough that you want to upgrade, and then game does popups telling you how much a great deal it is to upgrade constantly :V

Nope.

That's not how humans work.

9 out of 10 times, when you offer rewards for reaching goals, you make that person INVESTED, and feel that their time was WELL SPENT.

The casual players might start as solely looking for a way to "spend some time" or "have fun", but they can grow into regular players, that do spend a set amount of time each week playing, disregarding skillplay level entirely, as the game is EASY PEASY for the entire 10 acts, as long as their common sense makes them realise they can improve via various methods.

By making those casuals invested, they will sooner or later reach the cap of the "lite/demo" versions of tabs, and will certainly look into the next tier of tabs, via upgrade or simply buying the new ones.

Sure, you will have a "scrub" that will consider mulling due to financial reasons, but by improving the gameplay experience at such a level, that "scrub" might be more inclined to lend support in the future, especially if he's becoming a regular player.

And all this pales in comparison with adding more access to "trade". Making it easier, and adding such an "emphasis" will make everyone KNOW that "TRADING is the way PoE is meant to be played", and reaching 75 seems like a perfect requirement for keeping players invested in their characters at least for the regular "journey" via storyline content...

Humans do like REWARDS that have meaning, and the most important part is to balance their impact versus the effort required to get them.

And my suggestions did just that. They are BOT proof. They require players to PLAY the game to be obtained. And they make players CARE about their characters A LOT MORE than the current iteration.

So it's mainly a win-win scenario for GGG and PoE playerbase...

PS: Nice further edit.

Your points 1-3 are wrong from my viewpoint.

Let me explain why:

1. There is no problem (yet) regarding the influx of new players, the problem resides in retention of said players. As I said, making players get "rewards" and having "fun" while doing that, will increase the RETENTION rates, as long as casuals become invested enough to become regular players, so they will become more inclined to SUPPORT.

2. There is this absurd feeling that a player should IMPROVE during it's time playing the game and ADVANCING due to PROGRESSING on several sides - skilltree, items, skill choice, playstyle, skillplay - so even those casuals need to LEARN that they ALWAYS are going to get "bigger, better, faster etc." and go "up the food chain". Those "lite/demo" tabs will make players "crave" more.

3. People don't need to see those as an "Achievement", but as a "just REWARD" instead. Players need to see that "playing the game" and having "fun" are leading to something that BENEFITS them, even if PoE is "so' Free 2 Play.

And either of those methods, will actually make players more invested into their characters. And that should be GGG's goal all along. For players to be "invested", "play PoE" and have "fun" while doing so...

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Nope.

That's not how humans work.

9 out of 10 times, when you offer rewards for reaching goals, you make that person INVESTED, and feel that their time was WELL SPENT.

The casual players might start as solely looking for a way to "spend some time" or "have fun", but they can grow into regular players, that do spend a set amount of time each week playing, disregarding skillplay level entirely, as the game is EASY PEASY for the entire 10 acts, as long as their common sense makes them realise they can improve via various methods.

By making those casuals invested, they will sooner or later reach the cap of the "lite/demo" versions of tabs, and will certainly look into the next tier of tabs, via upgrade or simply buying the new ones.

Sure, you will have a "scrub" that will consider mulling due to financial reasons, but by improving the gameplay experience at such a level, that "scrub" might be more inclined to lend support in the future, especially if he's becoming a regular player.

And all this pales in comparison with adding more access to "trade". Making it easier, and adding such an "emphasis" will make everyone KNOW that "TRADING is the way PoE is meant to be played", and reaching 75 seems like a perfect requirement for keeping players invested in their characters at least for the regular "journey" via storyline content...

Humans do like REWARDS that have meaning, and the most important part is to balance their impact versus the effort required to get them.

And my suggestions did just that. They are BOT proof. They require players to PLAY the game to be obtained. And they make players CARE about their characters A LOT MORE than the current iteration.

So it's mainly a win-win scenario for GGG and PoE playerbase...

I mean you are telling me "how humans work" over the 1000s of other f2p games systems that tells us exactly what works and doesn't work :V Specifically in the optimal amount of money gained vs f2p systems vs public image.

But okay, nothing to discuss here then.

Also I have 0 idea why you stating trading when we are talking about stash tabs. If I give you a mini-currency stash tab you still cannot trade, using the premium system. Mini-currency stash tabs mean I wouldn't buy a currency stash tab, it has nothing to do with upgrading my tabs into premium or upgrading one of the 3 into one. They are two separate ways that GGG makes money. If free essence stash tab is enough for a casual player, why would I buy both an essence tab + a premium tab? It's less money for GGG. If I decide to spend $60 or more on the game then I would have more then enough space with every variant of stash tab + plenty of space.

If I am going to spend 20-30$ on the game and my free mini-tabs are enough I'll just buy a pet or armor set, but if I don't care about mtx then GGG would get 0 money instead of the mini-spender money.

Unless you're in disagreement that f2p game function on the f2p player (majority), mini-spender (decent chunk), and full spender groups (minority).

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Nope.

That's not how humans work.

9 out of 10 times, when you offer rewards for reaching goals, you make that person INVESTED, and feel that their time was WELL SPENT.

The casual players might start as solely looking for a way to "spend some time" or "have fun", but they can grow into regular players, that do spend a set amount of time each week playing, disregarding skillplay level entirely, as the game is EASY PEASY for the entire 10 acts, as long as their common sense makes them realise they can improve via various methods.

By making those casuals invested, they will sooner or later reach the cap of the "lite/demo" versions of tabs, and will certainly look into the next tier of tabs, via upgrade or simply buying the new ones.

Sure, you will have a "scrub" that will consider mulling due to financial reasons, but by improving the gameplay experience at such a level, that "scrub" might be more inclined to lend support in the future, especially if he's becoming a regular player.

And all this pales in comparison with adding more access to "trade". Making it easier, and adding such an "emphasis" will make everyone KNOW that "TRADING is the way PoE is meant to be played", and reaching 75 seems like a perfect requirement for keeping players invested in their characters at least for the regular "journey" via storyline content...

Humans do like REWARDS that have meaning, and the most important part is to balance their impact versus the effort required to get them.

And my suggestions did just that. They are BOT proof. They require players to PLAY the game to be obtained. And they make players CARE about their characters A LOT MORE than the current iteration.

So it's mainly a win-win scenario for GGG and PoE playerbase...

I mean you are telling me "how humans work" over the 1000s of other f2p games systems that tells us exactly what works and doesn't work :V Specifically in the optimal amount of money gained vs f2p systems vs public image.

But okay, nothing to discuss here then.

Also I have 0 idea why you stating trading when we are talking about stash tabs. If I give you a mini-currency stash tab you still cannot trade, using the premium system. Mini-currency stash tabs mean I wouldn't buy a currency stash tab, it has nothing to do with upgrading my tabs into premium or upgrading one of the 3 into one. They are two separate ways that GGG makes money. If free essence stash tab is enough for a casual player, why would I buy both an essence tab + a premium tab? It's less money for GGG. If I decide to spend $60 or more on the game then I would have more then enough space with every variant of stash tab + plenty of space.

If I am going to spend 20-30$ on the game and my free mini-tabs are enough I'll just buy a pet or armor set, but if I don't care about mtx then GGG would get 0 money instead of the mini-spender money.

Unless you're in disagreement that f2p game function on the f2p player (majority), mini-spender (decent chunk), and full spender groups (minority).

Why do you think that PoE implemented a different method of F2P and succeeded?

Those 1000s of other F2P games might have a few exceptions and PoE IS SUCH AN EXCEPTION.

I'm stating "trade" for the other instance, where GGG could offer a Premium tab via a quest/level requirement, and limit that for each character. Sorry if you haven't acknowledged that I talked about 2 distinct solutions. "Trade" via a Premium tab is one of them.

Mini-currency tabs will make a lot more players comfortable when buying a "full version" currency tab by giving them "first hand experience" and "assurance" that they are working as expected - see the "gripes" with the current implementation of Map tab if you're not convinced - and entice more players to upgrade to those Premium versions - if I remember correctly, all newly introduced "currency" tabs can be made Public at once so there is no need for a Premium tab already.

If you are inclined to spend 60$ or more, you might do so for "moar" space, "moar" MTX or just "moar" support. It's ALWAYS your choice.

If you're going to spend 20-30$, those mini-tabs might be enough to EXPERIENCE the content, but you would be more inclined to buy the full versions to "TRADE", have "moar" space, or just go "moar" MTX.

The F2P exception like PoE works on "spenders" be them "BIG" or "small" versus the "free" players.

And GGG always need to entice more "free" players to become "spenders".

Doing so via less "WOW" 3D art for items, makes sense. All players "CHOOSE" to improve their characters aspect via MTX, but it has 0 impact on their gameplay experience.

Doing so via limiting space, also makes sense, although it's a lot more important to find the "right" balance, as someone with space constraints will either become a "spender" or will leave the game. GGG's purpose becomes to entice as many players to "spend" to increase their gameplay experience instead of LEAVING the game entirely. And that is way more hard than it might seem at first sight...

And as I said before, the situation regarding "space constraints" CHANGED a lot since PoE's start, and will CERTAINLY reach a point where actions WILL BE NEEDED...

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Why do you think that PoE implemented a different method of F2P and succeeded?

Those 1000s of other F2P games might have a few exceptions and PoE IS SUCH AN EXCEPTION.

I'm stating "trade" for the other instance, where GGG could offer a Premium tab via a quest/level requirement, and limit that for each character. Sorry if you haven't acknowledged that I talked about 2 distinct solutions. "Trade" via a Premium tab is one of them.

Mini-currency tabs will make a lot more players comfortable when buying a "full version" currency tab by giving them "first hand experience" and "assurance" that they are working as expected - see the "gripes" with the current implementation of Map tab if you're not convinced - and entice more players to upgrade to those Premium versions - if I remember correctly, all newly introduced "currency" tabs can be made Public at once so there is no need for a Premium tab already.

If you are inclined to spend 60$ or more, you might do so for "moar" space, "moar" MTX or just "moar" support. It's ALWAYS your choice.

If you're going to spend 20-30$, those mini-tabs might be enough to EXPERIENCE the content, but you would be more inclined to buy the full versions to "TRADE", have "moar" space, or just go "moar" MTX.

The F2P exception like PoE works on "spenders" be them "BIG" or "small" versus the "free" players.

And GGG always need to entice more "free" players to become "spenders".

Doing so via less "WOW" 3D art for items, makes sense. All players "CHOOSE" to improve their characters aspect via MTX, but it has 0 impact on their gameplay experience.

Doing so via limiting space, also makes sense, although it's a lot more important to find the "right" balance, as someone with space constraints will either become a "spender" or will leave the game. GGG's purpose becomes to entice as many players to "spend" to increase their gameplay experience instead of LEAVING the game entirely. And that is way more hard than it might seem at first sight...

And as I said before, the situation regarding "space constraints" CHANGED a lot since PoE's start, and will CERTAINLY reach a point where actions WILL BE NEEDED...

PoE implemented a model that caused people to literally throw 2.5million dollars (to fund the game) or more at the game and whaler every supporter pack due to the quality of the game and random shit like hall of grandmaster, or 1k support packs that allow you to put a unique item in the game. This is an extreme rarity in f2p games period :V Instead of whaling for power, people whaled for the idea of a f2p game of high quality (of the arpg genre). With that, we accepted ultra expensive mtx and stash tabs to continue funding the game.


Also with an extremely rare and functional system that lasted quite well with 0 problems for 5 years, the main problem is you think they should magically change it just because :V For "maybe" benefits based off things that could or could not happen. The problem is everyone in this thread is 100% sure of the method will work 100% in their head. As oppose to prove against what already works in the market compared to other games, as well the model of PoE itself over 5 years.

28 pages about "how YOU all are wrong and I OP are right".

Congrats.

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

"

sofocle10000 wrote:

Why do you think that PoE implemented a different method of F2P and succeeded?

Those 1000s of other F2P games might have a few exceptions and PoE IS SUCH AN EXCEPTION.

I'm stating "trade" for the other instance, where GGG could offer a Premium tab via a quest/level requirement, and limit that for each character. Sorry if you haven't acknowledged that I talked about 2 distinct solutions. "Trade" via a Premium tab is one of them.

Mini-currency tabs will make a lot more players comfortable when buying a "full version" currency tab by giving them "first hand experience" and "assurance" that they are working as expected - see the "gripes" with the current implementation of Map tab if you're not convinced - and entice more players to upgrade to those Premium versions - if I remember correctly, all newly introduced "currency" tabs can be made Public at once so there is no need for a Premium tab already.

If you are inclined to spend 60$ or more, you might do so for "moar" space, "moar" MTX or just "moar" support. It's ALWAYS your choice.

If you're going to spend 20-30$, those mini-tabs might be enough to EXPERIENCE the content, but you would be more inclined to buy the full versions to "TRADE", have "moar" space, or just go "moar" MTX.

The F2P exception like PoE works on "spenders" be them "BIG" or "small" versus the "free" players.

And GGG always need to entice more "free" players to become "spenders".

Doing so via less "WOW" 3D art for items, makes sense. All players "CHOOSE" to improve their characters aspect via MTX, but it has 0 impact on their gameplay experience.

Doing so via limiting space, also makes sense, although it's a lot more important to find the "right" balance, as someone with space constraints will either become a "spender" or will leave the game. GGG's purpose becomes to entice as many players to "spend" to increase their gameplay experience instead of LEAVING the game entirely. And that is way more hard than it might seem at first sight...

And as I said before, the situation regarding "space constraints" CHANGED a lot since PoE's start, and will CERTAINLY reach a point where actions WILL BE NEEDED...

PoE implemented a model that caused people to literally throw 2.5million dollars (to fund the game) or more at the game and whaler every supporter pack due to the quality of the game and random shit like hall of grandmaster, or 1k support packs that allow you to put a unique item in the game. This is an extreme rarity in f2p games period :V Instead of whaling for power, people whaled for the idea of a f2p game of high quality (of the arpg genre). With that, we accepted ultra expensive mtx and stash tabs to continue funding the game.


Also with an extremely rare and functional system that lasted quite well with 0 problems for 5 years, the main problem is you think they should magically change it just because :V For "maybe" benefits based off things that could or could not happen. The problem is everyone in this thread is 100% sure of the method will work 100% in their head. As oppose to prove against what already works in the market compared to other games, as well the model of PoE itself over 5 years.

Nope, definitely not "an extreme rarity" one (except for the "free to play part"), just watch "the same idea" funded >60 times "moar" via Star Citizen. And that game will always require a stand alone buy in (better than relying on "support", at least from my point of view).

The fact that PoE became so "successful" is common sense - it was the first of it's kind to deliver on it's promises in such a way (while also breaking a lot of those along the way), but also realise that PoE also GREW and IMPROVED "moar" than expected in certain areas, while still lacking in some others.

And you must agree that PROGRESS can be made ONLY via CHANGE, be that smaller or BIGGER.

That system worked "magically" for 5-6 years, but just as "magically" it starts to SHOW IT'S LIMITS.

And no one here (especially me) said that GGG should "nuke" the previous system, but IMPROVE by BUILDING UPON IT.

So HIGHLIGHITING certain ways to IMPROVE said system, on a Feedback and Suggestions part of forum nonetheless, makes us "100% sure of the method will work 100% in their head". Cool story. /s

Heh, at least these points stand a better chance at actually becoming a reality sooner than a lot latter, compared to GGG addressing melee vs ranged/cast balance or God forbid, single target namelocking melee regaining a purpose/asynchronous trading being implemented...

"

RagnarokChu wrote:

You want new players to spend money by giving them free stuff that majority of casual players would just use and not bother buying the tabs anyway, since like I stated a mini-version of a map/currency/whatever else is more then enough for casual players.

In f2p games the majority of accounts are funded by a smaller number of paying accounts. If I where to buy any support pack, I would have stash tabs anyway with the money you get from supporting the game.

I mean, you answer your own question once again. :@ That is the point of adding those tabs - so that casual players don't HAVE TO buy them but maybe WANT TO once they start getting more into the game. I mean, GGG is already giving out whole game for free, holding hostage such stuff is just pointless.
If people don't want to spend money, they won't. It is as simple as that. Forcing anyone to spend money will only result in them leaving, which in turn causes numbers to drop. Less number, less players interested in getting into the game because PoE ded gaem and so on. This is how PoE how their numbers in the first place.

And if you are supporting because, and to buy stash tabs, you won't really mind if there are free/demo versions of these tabs.

Ps. Never-dying argument of GGG considering something, which in turn means they are absolutely right about it:
- lockstep will cause game to feel slugish
- permanent allocation is bad for the game
- inefficient trade solves economy problems
- power charges are the cause of problems with crit, therefore 30%

I'm not saying that they must be wrong about it, maybe I'm in the wrong. But please, don't pretend that GGG knows what they are doing in every aspect. Nobody does.

"

de99ial wrote:

28 pages about "how YOU all are wrong and I OP are right".

Congrats.

One line about you not understanding what this is about.
If you don't understand something, it doesn't mean it is stupid. At the very best, you can be.
So please, unless you have something to contribute to the thread, say nothing and refrain from spamming. Unless you really want to bump the thread, then feel free to. :)

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Miská wrote:

So what you are saying is indirectly stashtabs make you farm quicker. I guess that also goes for faster internet, having an SSD, living closer to a PoE server, having a better computer. And I can name another 1000 things that money can buy that will make you farm quicker.

1000 things, really? So far you've only managed to name one: SSDs. What you have failed to do with even that single example, however, is establish relevance. Please explain exactly how SSD sales are connected to GGG's business model and/or bottom line.

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Miská wrote:

the inconvenience (That's still what it is, no matter how many times you tell yourself it isn't) for granted.

You call it inconvenience, and you are not wrong. But you conveniently ignore the entire point I described (for you specifically, no less): inconvenience = additional time, sometimes a lot of time. And here I am really only talking about SSF. Once you bring trade into the equation, your argument that the absence of stash tabs represents inconvenience only (and not significant lost profits) implodes utterly.

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Miská wrote:

Maybe for someone it's winning when they look better then others. Should probably start a topic about how MTX is also 'p2w'.

Huh?

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Miská wrote:

This thread is becoming more of a joke everyday. I don't think anyone disagrees with your point,

You acknowledge my point, yet by implication characterize it as a "joke." I find it difficult to follow your reasoning.

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Miská wrote:

but the way you bring your argument, against a company that is exactly what f2p should be (unless ofcourse you are delusional, and think people can survive on air) is imo disgusting.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I have so far argued for nothing more than increased transparency.

I do not agree that it is disgusting, and in fact I think consumers pushing for additional transparency leads to both socially positive outcomes and (yes!) better business outcomes (= MO' MONEY for GGG) in the long run.