150 points map tab bollocks BONUS: Fragment tab is 75 points, totaling at 22,5$!

"
Xavathos wrote:
I have 85 stash tabs still empty in Abyss league at this time.

Guys, did I pay to lose? :(


I can have hundreds of items set for sale at all times, meaning I make currency. And I do.
If you didn't manage to fill up your stash tabs - well, sucks to be you.

Your argument is pretty much that exp boost wouldn't matter at all because you are standing in the Twilight Strand, doing nothing.

Oh, man, jeez I guess exp boost is so overpowered, but why am I still level 1?! Checkmate tinfoilers, lelkekbur.

Flawless logic at play
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
Last edited by Perq#4049 on Jan 22, 2018, 4:16:17 AM
"
Perq wrote:
...

And please, can we stop repeating the same old (and false) stash tabs do not give gameplay advantage? (SSF - whatever I suppose?)
They gave minimal one in the past. It is not the past anymore. If you are playing trade leagues, using stash tabs is connected to trading in a big way. Trading is a gameplay mechanic.
People fine tune their builds to some retarded levels when it comes to clear speed, to save some seconds, yet being able to price your items with few clicks (as opposed to using some 3rd part programs) is somehow not an advantage. Come on.
...


I don't agree with your definition of gameplay advantage. Traditional pay to win scenario involves paying real life money for items or effects improving performance of your in-game characters compared to other players who did not bought such items. Stash tabs, no matter how you use them, are not at the same level of benefit. You also have comfortably set for yourself a goal of accumulating riches, for wich you need extra stash tabs (or premium stash tabs). If you are not interested in accumulating riches, stash tabs are far less necessary.

I agree stash tabs provide benefits to players. Players that are interested in PoE will most likely want to invest 20 or 30 USD to buy basic set of premium stashes and most likely currency stash tab.

What matters most to me though is that there is no barrier to start enjoying PoE. It is absolutely free to download and try out. Once you realize this is a game you want to spend more time with, it is only natural that you spend certain amount of money to make that experience more pleasant.
"
Players that are interested in PoE will most likely want to invest 20 or 30 USD to buy basic set of premium stashes and most likely currency stash tab.


I corrected the sentence so that it is correct. :P People who like PoE will buy points, just because. They don't need to be annoyed by lack of storage space to buy stuff. If anything, I'd say this is a good reason to quit playing. I experienced this quite a few times when I wanted to get my friends to play. You can't quite imagine how bad it looks (and feels like telling them) when it comes to storage space when you are beginning. Especially when someone doesn't know that they don't have to keep everything.

Countless people here on the forums with their shinny supporter tags are a good proof of that. We don't need that many points for stash tabs, yet we spend ridiculous amounts of money on PoE. Why? Because we like the game. I (and maybe some of we) don't like when somebody thinks that they will make us buy things in their f2p scheme by applying some weird acrobatics.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
150 points for a fragment tab... fragment tabs aren't even that big of a deal!
75 points max for a tab or upgrade map tab
I usually do not read popular posts again after i made a comment on it, unless it's one of my own. I wish to have a Black robed Grim Reaper micro set in game one day, grant my wish, GGG
"
Perq wrote:
"
Players that are interested in PoE will most likely want to invest 20 or 30 USD to buy basic set of premium stashes and most likely currency stash tab.


I corrected the sentence so that it is correct. :P People who like PoE will buy points, just because. They don't need to be annoyed by lack of storage space to buy stuff. If anything, I'd say this is a good reason to quit playing. I experienced this quite a few times when I wanted to get my friends to play. You can't quite imagine how bad it looks (and feels like telling them) when it comes to storage space when you are beginning. Especially when someone doesn't know that they don't have to keep everything.

Countless people here on the forums with their shinny supporter tags are a good proof of that. We don't need that many points for stash tabs, yet we spend ridiculous amounts of money on PoE. Why? Because we like the game. I (and maybe some of we) don't like when somebody thinks that they will make us buy things in their f2p scheme by applying some weird acrobatics.


I disagree again with your correction and some of your arguments.

Underscored sentence does not generally apply to people who just recently discovered the game. Sure, once you spend 2000 or 3000 hours with the game, you might buy a supporter pack or point pack just because you want to thank GGG for their wonderful game. It took more than 2 years to buy my first supporter's pack. Assumption that people throw 20 or 30 bucks GGG's way is brave but unrealistic. I would love to see statistics how many people register and download the game but only played handful of hours before abandoning it. I still believe there is a lot of people who just can't get through the initial stages of the game.

I would love to see GGG update number of stash tabs included with base free game--currency tab and 4 normal and 1 premium tabs These 6 tabs should be good enough for anyone to progress from early exploration into final acts of story without any issues. 10 tabs should be even enough to start running maps.
"
Perq wrote:
"
Xavathos wrote:
I have 85 stash tabs still empty in Abyss league at this time.

Guys, did I pay to lose? :(


I can have hundreds of items set for sale at all times, meaning I make currency. And I do.
If you didn't manage to fill up your stash tabs - well, sucks to be you.

Your argument is pretty much that exp boost wouldn't matter at all because you are standing in the Twilight Strand, doing nothing.

Oh, man, jeez I guess exp boost is so overpowered, but why am I still level 1?! Checkmate tinfoilers, lelkekbur.

Flawless logic at play


Wait, I made an argument? And you responded to it?

I thought all I did was ask a question...

\_(o.o)_/
Carry on my waypoint son, there'll be peace when maps are done.
Lay your portal gem to rest, don't you die no more.

'Cause it's a bitter sweet symphony this league.
Try to make maps meet, you're a slave to the meta, then you leave.
Last edited by Xavathos#5130 on Jan 22, 2018, 7:54:57 AM
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Xavathos wrote:


Wait, I made an argument? And you responded to it?

I thought all I did was ask a question...

\_(o.o)_/


I'm not even sure if you know what you did. :v
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
Last edited by Perq#4049 on Jan 22, 2018, 8:04:48 AM
"
Baron01 wrote:
I don't agree with your definition of gameplay advantage. Traditional pay to win scenario involves paying real life money for items or effects improving performance of your in-game characters compared to other players who did not bought such items. Stash tabs, no matter how you use them, are not at the same level of benefit. You also have comfortably set for yourself a goal of accumulating riches, for wich you need extra stash tabs (or premium stash tabs). If you are not interested in accumulating riches, stash tabs are far less necessary.


(Emphasis mine.)

We are talking about a spectrum here, one which you just implicitly validated, though you may not have done so deliberately.

Pay2win, in its most basic and distilled definition, is that you pay real-life money to "win." For that to even begin making sense, we have to define a "win" condition.

I would say in the case of PoE, and pretty much any grindy ARPG, that the only win condition we can fully agree on is the ability to clear content faster. If you disagree with that, then please do tell us what you think PoE's win condition is, because the discussion won't move forward until we can agree on that premise. Baron, you said it was "improving performance of your in-game characters." Would you agree that "clearing content faster" falls under your definition of "performance?"

Spoiler
And before some white knight comes charging in with "You can't win in a non-competitive game like PoE," allow me to remind you that such statements necessarily claim that pay2win cannot exist in PoE, and that therefore GGG should feel free to start selling currency for real-life money (like Blizzard did in D3), since PoE is, after all, 100% immune to pay2win. Reductio ad absurdum? Yes.


After that, the question becomes much, much simpler to parse:

"Does paying real-life money allow my character to clear content faster?"

Yes? Then the game has pay2win elements.
No? Then the game does not have pay2win elements.

Stash tabs absolutely do lead to faster content clearing, for reasons described ad nauseam in this and many other threads, so the only way you can reasonably claim that PoE has no pay2win elements is to claim that faster content clearing is not a win condition (regardless of whether other win conditions also exist).

Spoiler
P.S. A lot of GGG business model apologists point out that it is possible to play the entire game without spending any money. This is 100% correct. It's also not relevant at all to the above. Consider that it is possible to play many games which are indisputably pay2win without paying any money, if you are willing to be put at an extreme disadvantage.

That is exactly what many are saying about PoE: That free2play players are put at an extreme disadvantage over those who are willing and able to pay money. If you want to say that PoE has one of the best demos in the genre, well then, I am more than happy to concede your point. As a demo, the 100% free2play version of PoE is quite awesome.
Wash your hands, Exile!
Last edited by gibbousmoon#4656 on Jan 22, 2018, 7:36:52 PM
"
gibbousmoon wrote:



Stash tabs absolutely do lead to faster content clearing.


Explain to me how stashtabs help you clear faster? (This one is gonna be good)
"
Perq wrote:
"
Xavathos wrote:
I have 85 stash tabs still empty in Abyss league at this time.

Guys, did I pay to lose? :(


I can have hundreds of items set for sale at all times, meaning I make currency. And I do.
If you didn't manage to fill up your stash tabs - well, sucks to be you.

Your argument is pretty much that exp boost wouldn't matter at all because you are standing in the Twilight Strand, doing nothing.

Oh, man, jeez I guess exp boost is so overpowered, but why am I still level 1?! Checkmate tinfoilers, lelkekbur.

Flawless logic at play

Setting up 100s of shitty 1alch items that most people won't buy and stopping to map to sell an item for a alch is p2lose if anything else :V

There is massive diminishing returns after a set amount of tabs, which is your first set of premium tabs.

Most people don't even fill out 2 premium tabs with items to sell so if they gave out one that massively disincentivize people to buy tabs :V

If people have the problem with "pure f2p", pretend the game is an extremely generous demo that all you have to do is pay $10 to remove the ad popup that very mildly inconveniences you at best, but people will argue is p2w because the 10 seconds of not watching ads is an advantage over the 100s of hours you play.
Last edited by RagnarokChu#4426 on Jan 22, 2018, 10:48:38 PM

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