150 points map tab bollocks BONUS: Fragment tab is 75 points, totaling at 22,5$!

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Miská wrote:

Like I mentioned before, they are trying to put GGG in the same line as mobile games/ other 'not really' f2p games. You know the ones that have 1-2 character slots, 1 bag slot (Rest payed) Content locked behind paywalls etc etc etc. Thats not even CLOSE to what this game is at all.

GGG went from a garage to a company with alot of employees that all need to be payed. I think they have been very reasonable in keeping the game as free as possible, while still ensuring they have food to eat.

We're not. If anything, it is you that is painting us in those colors. What we are trying to convey to people like you (and GGG) is that we think that PoE is going into wrong direction with the model. Of course PoE is not even close. If it was, you wouldn't see me posting anything - I'd be long gone.

GGG went from garage company because of people's support. Because PoE had no p2w garbage that is seen in those mobile games. People supported them with hundreds (and thousands) of dollars because they liked what GGG is doing. Because the game allowed everyone to participate. Not because they were funneled into buying some dumb 15$ stash tabs. Nobody needs to spend thousands of dollars to buy stash tabs.
Therefore, we see those trends, and we think that it is bad for the game. But instead of understanding what we are trying to say, you see as enemies. We're not. We're just afraid that PoE will turn into garbage that is mobile market nowadays.

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Perq wrote:

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Miská wrote:

Like I mentioned before, they are trying to put GGG in the same line as mobile games/ other 'not really' f2p games. You know the ones that have 1-2 character slots, 1 bag slot (Rest payed) Content locked behind paywalls etc etc etc. Thats not even CLOSE to what this game is at all.

GGG went from a garage to a company with alot of employees that all need to be payed. I think they have been very reasonable in keeping the game as free as possible, while still ensuring they have food to eat.

We're not. If anything, it is you that is painting us in those colors. What we are trying to convey to people like you (and GGG) is that we think that PoE is going into wrong direction with the model. Of course PoE is not even close. If it was, you wouldn't see me posting anything - I'd be long gone.

GGG went from garage company because of people's support. Because PoE had no p2w garbage that is seen in those mobile games. People supported them with hundreds (and thousands) of dollars because they liked what GGG is doing. Because the game allowed everyone to participate. Not because they were funneled into buying some dumb 15$ stash tabs. Nobody needs to spend thousands of dollars to buy stash tabs.
Therefore, we see those trends, and we think that it is bad for the game. But instead of understanding what we are trying to say, you see as enemies. We're not. We're just afraid that PoE will turn into garbage that is mobile market nowadays.

PoE still has no P2W elements. You obviously have no idea what P2W entails if you think it does with stash tabs.

PoE is far, far from being P2W and it's all just in your head. I have like 100 tabs, am I winning at all? You gotta play to fill them just like everyone else.

A friend who plays completely free is at 35/40 right now and has over 150 ex, while I'm nowhere even remotely close to it. And no he doesn't play all day.

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Perq wrote:

As I said, I have no problems with cosmetics. Charge however much you want, but if you start funneling people into buying them because they help you with gameplay, I'm out.

... What I do not support is throwing garbage at players so that they buy your stash tabs.

What stash tab gives direct gameplay advantage? Is it even possible for storage space to provide gameplay advantage? Convenience, yes. Gameplay advantage, hell no! Your character does not hit harder, last longer or moves faster because you have premium or specialized stash tab. Neither you find more maps when you own map stash tabs (or my map stash tab is broken since I surely do not get more maps).

Also, latest additional to special tabs is a map stash, which was a feature requested by PoE players for ages. Ever since GGG created currency tab there were voices asking for map stash as well. We now have 4 specialized stash tabs--currency, shards, divination cards and maps. I believe this is enough and GGG now need to work on improving their functionality further to allow more items to be used by these tabs. Divination card stash tab is one example where the tab is rather low added value for its price. Frequency of cards is not so high that you absolutely need them and most of the cards are trash with no value so you might not even pick them up.

All in all, PoE is as ethical as it get when it comes to MTX. I would prefer that loot boxes are not part of PoE's MTX arsenal but that is my only gripe with MTX in this game.

^ Now imagine that you cannot use stash at all. Would it affect your character in the end?
Would you be able to buy items with currency that you are storing in your inventory only?

This has been explained already, but lets go again:
Currency expansion introduced Shaped/Elder items. They can be far more powerful than regular ones.
They only drop on Shaper/Elder maps. To farm those maps efficiently, you need to have a lot of maps. Storing those maps, cards, essences, Atziri/Pale Court/Uber Atizi/Shaper fragments take up space. If you don't have this space, you either have to get rid of those items. This is where you are missing out, and this is where it starts affecting your character.
If you aren't able to buy items, you won't be able to hit as hard or survive as long as you would if you had better gear.

If you are so sure about them not affecting anything, create a new account and transfer everything you have to 4 stash tabs. Now, how much stuff do you have to throw away because of that? Are you really so sure it affects nothing?
Do I even have to mention premium stash tab that allows you to price items in seconds?

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Perq wrote:

^ Now imagine that you cannot use stash at all. Would it affect your character in the end?
Would you be able to buy items with currency that you are storing in your inventory only?

This has been explained already, but lets go again:
Currency expansion introduced Shaped/Elder items. They can be far more powerful than regular ones.
They only drop on Shaper/Elder maps. To farm those maps efficiently, you need to have a lot of maps. Storing those maps, cards, essences, Atziri/Pale Court/Uber Atizi/Shaper fragments take up space. If you don't have this space, you either have to get rid of those items. This is where you are missing out, and this is where it starts affecting your character.
If you aren't able to buy items, you won't be able to hit as hard or survive as long as you would if you had better gear.

If you are so sure about them not affecting anything, create a new account and transfer everything you have to 4 stash tabs. Now, how much stuff do you have to throw away because of that? Are you really so sure it affects nothing?
Do I even have to mention premium stash tab that allows you to price items in seconds?

Slight convenience advantages after you play the game for 100s of hours to actually get to the point were it matters is pretty much okay via gaming standard and at top of the chart for f2p models. Especially if there is a limited cap on how many you need and are reasonably priced to rest on the market.

Considering you spend the same price of a $60 game for more space you ever need.

Explaining how the game could be a better f2p purist paradise don't fix the issue of the company needing to monetize money literally in some way. Don't say that you are "okay" with mtx, it doesn't 100% pay the bills for PoE. Don't say the game "changed" since literally day 1 of game release it sold stash tabs.

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Perq wrote:

^ Now imagine that you cannot use stash at all. Would it affect your character in the end?
Would you be able to buy items with currency that you are storing in your inventory only?

This has been explained already, but lets go again:
Currency expansion introduced Shaped/Elder items. They can be far more powerful than regular ones.
They only drop on Shaper/Elder maps. To farm those maps efficiently, you need to have a lot of maps. Storing those maps, cards, essences, Atziri/Pale Court/Uber Atizi/Shaper fragments take up space. If you don't have this space, you either have to get rid of those items. This is where you are missing out, and this is where it starts affecting your character.
If you aren't able to buy items, you won't be able to hit as hard or survive as long as you would if you had better gear.

If you are so sure about them not affecting anything, create a new account and transfer everything you have to 4 stash tabs. Now, how much stuff do you have to throw away because of that? Are you really so sure it affects nothing?
Do I even have to mention premium stash tab that allows you to price items in seconds?

Are you complaining GGG is continuously adding new systems and content to this free to play game? Yes, you are complaining about it... I hope you do not argue that GGG is so sinister in their plans to pull money from our wallets that they create countless new content for players to conquer to a point that those poor players would have to shell out few $ to buy more stash tabs to store all their riches.

Sure, 4 basic tabs are now too little to fully enjoy the experience this game offers. GGG should increase basic free tabs included in the game to 6 or 8. Hell, I would even say it should eventually include currency tab as part of those free tabs (yes, I paid for currency stash tab and would not mind if GGG releases it to everyone as part of free update in future). However, this does not change a fact this game is free to play and none of the purchases provide gameplay advantages.

What I don't understand is why not adding either "Lite" variations of certain tabs, like the currency, divination, essence, map tabs etc. or at least a Premium tab for all accounts as a reward for reaching a set level, like 75 for example...

I don't mind paying full price for new tabs, and I always did, heck, I still have 2 currency tabs, although I mainly use just 1, or 2 map tabs, but some common sense improvements regarding tab, tab management and sorting items should happen AS SOON AS POSSIBLE...

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Baron01 wrote:

Are you complaining GGG is continuously adding new systems and content to this free to play game? Yes, you are complaining about it... I hope you do not argue that GGG is so sinister in their plans to pull money from our wallets that they create countless new content for players to conquer to a point that those poor players would have to shell out few $ to buy more stash tabs to store all their riches.

Sure, 4 basic tabs are now too little to fully enjoy the experience this game offers. GGG should increase basic free tabs included in the game to 6 or 8. Hell, I would even say it should eventually include currency tab as part of those free tabs (yes, I paid for currency stash tab and would not mind if GGG releases it to everyone as part of free update in future). However, this does not change a fact this game is free to play and none of the purchases provide gameplay advantages.

Nice strawman. Too bad I haven't said that new additions are bad. I just explained to you how new stuff added to the game contributes to funneling people into buying stash tabs. Yet, not only you managed to ignore that completely, you also constructed a terrible strawman. And in the end you agreed to what I said.
why

That said, I wouldn't mind adding the tabs for new players, even tho I paid for some of them. So I guess we agree to some degree, eh?

And please, can we stop repeating the same old (and false) stash tabs do not give gameplay advantage? (SSF - whatever I suppose?)
They gave minimal one in the past. It is not the past anymore. If you are playing trade leagues, using stash tabs is connected to trading in a big way. Trading is a gameplay mechanic.
People fine tune their builds to some retarded levels when it comes to clear speed, to save some seconds, yet being able to price your items with few clicks (as opposed to using some 3rd part programs) is somehow not an advantage. Come on.
And before someone says but Perq, if you want to play at that level you have to pay. Ok, sure, so now you agree that this is actually an advantage. duh.

I have 85 stash tabs still empty in Abyss league at this time.

Guys, did I pay to lose? :(

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Xavathos wrote:

I have 85 stash tabs still empty in Abyss league at this time.

Guys, did I pay to lose? :(

If you bought extra power in a p2w game and decided not to use it, did you pay to win?

That's what you are asking here.

It has nothing to do with what you do, it's the principle.