PoE races are not ethical

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鬼殺し wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

It's only for 20 days. I remember sleeping only 4 hours a day for three months after Black Desert release.

"Don't feel bad about your crippling alcoholism, things can always be worse," said the heroin junkie in her best attempt at minimising the tragedy. It wasn't a very good one.

You shouldn't compare not getting enough sleep because of playing a game you like to alcoholism or heroin addiction.

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I_NO wrote:

How does people's play style or even life style affect you again?

By GGG not factoring in the hours played as part of the rankings in racing then it's he who is a top racer AND can play the most hours (or tag team with a friend) that has a very unfair advantage. There has to be a base minimum hours played to get ranked but beyond that efficiency of play should be a higher factor in determining who's in 1st place than just xp because he/she has played more hours. GGG is also doing a dis-service to all racers by rewarding endangering one's health (possibly fatally) by only ranking by xp alone.

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鬼殺し wrote:

And you shouldn't comment on analogies if you don't get how they work. You're trying to say things aren't so bad because they could be much worse. That doesn't change how bad things are. It just makes you look that much worse.

No i'm saying that if i didn't die in 3 months of undersleeping i'm unlikely to die in 20 days. Some people sleep for 4-6 hours for years because of their jobs, so i think you guys are dramatizing here.

And yes, people died because of not getting any sleep at all for days while playing video games. Yet no one forced them to do that. Those weren't competitive MMOs. Damn, some weren't even MMO. The blame is on them and their relatives who didn't give a s**t, not gaming companies that create good and therefore addictive games.

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This conversation is over.

Oh i love that attitude.

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LaiTash wrote:

You shouldn't compare not getting enough sleep because of playing a game you like to alcoholism or heroin addiction.

If you think they are driven by different factors, you are incorrect sir. The underlying reason we game fanatically as we do is not terribly different from what draws someone to alcohol, or heroin. Our drug of choice is just more socially accepted (relatively speaking) and arguably more safe although I could debate that point against alcoholism...I'm not touching heroin in terms of debate; that's just an awful drug and it would be in bad taste given I'm going to a funeral this Friday for a friend who succumbed to it.

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Nubatron wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

You shouldn't compare not getting enough sleep because of playing a game you like to alcoholism or heroin addiction.

If you think they are driven by different factors, you are incorrect sir.

I don't care what they are driven by. I've seen what alcoholism does to people and i've seen what gaming addiction does to people. These two things belong different universes.

At the extremes they both kill.

Sleep deprived driving can be as bad (or worse) than drunk driving depending on what study you look at.

They both can/have wreck families.

Functional alcoholics show up to work and hide it just as easily as someone who gamed the entire night before.

Parents have literally caused their children to die due to neglect from their gaming habit.

Here is some awful reading that has no good ending...

https://www.ranker.com/list/top-8-most-fatally-negligent-gamer-parents-of-all-time/michael-gibson

Alcoholism just has a longer history of wrecking lives.

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Goredeath wrote:

Because people play insane amount of hours to reach their top100.

Example ranked #2 player played 100 hours but #1 player 130 hours. Ethically #2 player should be ahead.

But it's not just unethical from competive perspective but for PoE as developers too. You actually encourage some people go with their addictive sleep deprivation and people have actually died from it. They sit all day drinking their coffeine just to stay awake and then pay price for it with their health.

If you want to make it truly competive then you need put timers how much people are logged inside game and put that into equation.

Seriously, though, you don't make a case for a solid, universal set of ethics on this. Saying that the less you play, the more ethical the approach, and therefore the more you should win doesn't make a lot of sense . . . For instance, if I only play 30 seconds, am I the MOST ethical? Should I win?

Now, I could see an interesting argument made out of this for timed events. That is, not days on the calendar, but actual server-hours. Like you only have 20 server hours to race. And then you give everyone 2 weeks to do it. That way, everyone is limited to the same amount of time to play, you can cap it, and you offer more flexibility for those who can't play as much.

I'm a fan of that idea.

But over all, I disagree with you. There's nothing inherently more ethical about spending less time playing, nor is there anything unethical about offering events that happen to favor those who spend more time pursuing them.

Which is, by the way, where the whole alcoholism argument falls apart. It doesn't really matter whether gaming addiction is comparable to alcoholism. What matters is that it's not unethical to sell alcohol, nor is it unethical to sell video games.

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magicstop wrote:

Which is, by the way, where the whole alcoholism argument falls apart. It doesn't really matter whether gaming addiction is comparable to alcoholism. What matters is that it's not unethical to sell alcohol, nor is it unethical to sell video games.

Not sure anyone talking about alcoholism was siding with the "this is unethical" crowd, unless I missed it.

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鬼殺し wrote:

And you shouldn't comment on analogies if you don't get how they work. You're trying to say things aren't so bad because they could be much worse. That doesn't change how bad things are. It just makes you look that much worse.

This conversation is over.

The hell are you talking about?

You used an analogy, and he called you out for it being a bad one. Nothing is equal, and everything is relative. It's absolutely okay to rank things in comparison with worse things, because it CAN be worse. For instance, being a "heroine junkie" is miles worse then playing a video game too much. So when someone says that playing too much for 20 days isn't as bad as playing too much for 90, they are right. Hell, they're right just mathematically.

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LaiTash wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

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LaiTash wrote:

You shouldn't compare not getting enough sleep because of playing a game you like to alcoholism or heroin addiction.

If you think they are driven by different factors, you are incorrect sir.

I don't care what they are driven by. I've seen what alcoholism does to people and i've seen what gaming addiction does to people. These two things belong different universes.

mix both addictions and you have a rough Idea of what my life is like