Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

Most HC players use log out macros, even streamers use them. Not many people in HC play it HC.

Did a single person actually try EB?

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Environmental traps in the labyrinth now calculate a player's life differently for determining damage. This was previously the total of a player's maximum life and Energy Shield. Now Energy Shield counts as 60% of its value for this purpose. Only Energy Shield covering life is counted. This was determined to be the best ratio applicable to the wide variety of Energy Shield based builds that exist.

EB makes Energy Shield not count. The only real disadvantage are with Hybrid Builds, while ES now have a real advantage, because just 60% damage is basically nothing, although they have usually less access to physical damage reduction but a Flask should be doable.

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Will you quit acting like spectre builds can't do labyrinth? Traps do 90% Less damage versus spectres. If you can't keep them alive when they only take 10% of the trap damage, you don't know how to play a summoner.

Yeah Summoners are incredible easy in the lab. Not only are they basically unkillable by traps, you can also use them as a shield for Poison Darts and if you unlock the Offerings early you can speed yourself up with Fleshoffering or get Physical Damage Reduction from Zombies, both help a lot.

Izaro sucks with some of the mechanics because Minion AI is terrible, but thats it.

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Try any vaal-skill based build you like

There shouldn't be any Vaal skill based builds. GGG doesn't like those skills alone making a build. That is why they basically destroyed Vaal Molten Shell and Vaal Spark. I'm not sure if there is any other Vaal build left. Many builds use Vaal Discipline, Haste or Grace basically as additional Flasks, but that is far from being a Vaal build, and they shouldn't need that.

just another feedback from players who plays from beta: lab is a boring, annoying shit. Looks like part of another trash-game. Its possible to forgot bout enchants, but i still must spend lots of time for it on EVERY characters i have (for ascendancy)
hate it every time.

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sidtherat wrote:

btw - you guys play HC for a challenge. you get it - and now it is a problem that the challenge is too challenging? or that there is a risk involved? blasphemy! what irks HC players + lab is the annoying fact that logging out resets the progress and i bet most of you here play with chicken script and use it frequently

First, I don't use macros. Period. If I did, why would I bother playing HC, you ask. I agree completely!

Second, there is a very large difference between having your abilities challenged and having your patience challenged. Highly mechanical boss fights fit into the former category. Pretty much the entire Labyrinth (of which the traps are just one component) fits into the latter category. I have yet to see you make a post which indicates that you "get" this distinction, sidtherat. Do you?

GGG did a lot right with the Atlas expansion by increasing mob life and adding more mechanically complex bosses. It made the actual gameplay outside of town much more tactical and, imo, fun. Also more challenging, but in a *meaningful* way.

The Labyrinth represents a completely different kind of gameplay philosophy, one shareed by many MMOs, which are notorious for not respecting your time: Reward the player who is willing to endure the most.

In any game, let alone an action game, rewarding tolerance more than skill is bad news. I think GGG gets this, but some mistakes are quite difficult to backpedal from, especially ones with as many extra assets and coding as the Labyrinth.

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Jgizle wrote:

Most HC players use log out macros, even streamers use them. Not many people in HC play it HC.

Don't think so.
I don´t use macros and best poe friends do neither

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TheDeathX wrote:

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Jgizle wrote:

Most HC players use log out macros, even streamers use them. Not many people in HC play it HC.

Don't think so.
I don´t use macros and best poe friends do neither

I don't use them either.

I've never done an alt-f4. Of course, I've also never played HC. There must be analogy here about a beetle that doesn't even play HC liking to belittle HC players because he believes everyone complaining about labyrinth is because they don't know how to play and if they also play HC then the beetle belittles them because they use alt-F4. When people say that they don't like labyrinth because it is boring and they don't use alt-F4. The beetle just repeats that they need to learn how to play labyrinth so they would then like labyrinth and that he knows they really use alt-F4. The beetle is a genuine master expert on PoE in general and labyrinth specifically but doesn't seem to understand others very well.

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Sure_K4y wrote:

And this isn't about faith. Faith is for whatever godhood you believe in.
[...]
I am not saying it is mechanically bad per se, I am saying uber izaro is overdone in terms of dmg. His sword "reave" delivers about 7-7,5k damage (unbuffed) prior to any mitigation on the player's end.
[...]
I call BS on "all builds", I even call BS on "all end-game-viable builds". Summon spectre is end-game viable to the point of being able to kill uber-atziri comfortably and I've yet to see a spectre summoner that isn't completely overlevelled and overgeared do a successful uber-lab run.
[...]
You're trying to argue the obvious fact that the lab favours certain builds while it punishes others. That being said, this content is not balanced, and if it is not balanced, then it is not good design.
[...]
I know what bad game design is, this thread is dedicated specifically to just that. And what you call "bullshit builds" won't even make it to merciless Izaro or beyond, thus your point is invalid.
[...]

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Fruz wrote:

- The time argument is a nonsense, going through the lab does not take a lot of time, and the learning process to go through it takes much, much, much less time that the crazy amount of knowledge needed to reach endgame and go through maps comfortably.

You're comparing apples and berries here, these two things have nothing to do with one another, unless we include uber Izaro in this equation.

- No.
You should look into what "bad faith" actually means.
Nothing to do with god there.

- "7-7,5k damage (unbuffed" :
Ok, so you have no clue what you are talking about, have you ?

- You call BS, but that might because ... well, see the previous point.
As an example, and this uber btw.
And you could easily use SRS, zombies or whatever to back up that specters.

- Everything in the games favours certain builds over some others, deal with it.
You can go through lab with any well built character.

- Bullshit builds cannot make it to merc Izaro ? Sure, if you spec into CI + MoM you won't .... but even very fucked up builds can reach a3 merc, since you can just throw yourself on any boss as much as you want.

- No.
I am comparing play time between game elements.
=> lab running time is not significant if you run it only once for the points, and if you fail at hit, you learn and get better ( or you forget the ascendancy points ), period.
You could also buy a carry, for whatever I care.
Uber Izaro is completely irrelevant here ( the spawn rate of the trials might be something GGG could look into, that's definitely debatable ).

And know calling the BS path finder argument ?

So teah, you really seem to have no clue about the lab in general.
You mentionning a "crit[...]vaal-pact" builds as something that cannot run the lab shows it even more lol, crit VP builds are among the best to facetank Izaro ....

I've added the following to the OP.

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On page 49 of this thread Zaludoz posted some interesting information including a list 582 accounts that have posted in support of "fixing" labyrinth with thread starters marked in that list. He provides two additional lists of a little over a dozen accounts each which were the most common posters on both sides of the controversy. This analysis was done when the list was around 248 threads.

Some seems to have missed Zaludoz's analysis on page 49 of this thread because they keep repeating the 200 accounts number. That is the number of people starting threads. The number of people voicing support for fixing the labyrinth is over 582 in the Feedback and Suggestions forum.

I also note that the number of threads list has been updated to be over 260 threads now.