Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

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Dawmz wrote:
OH yeah, 3*15 mins to get the points, what a no-life, hardcore experience.


It's not about how fast you can do it, in case you succeed, it's about how you can loose time and get nothing out of it.

And it's 4x15 mins, figured I'd let you know, just to make sure...
[quote="ScrotieMcB"]It's just, like, people's opinions, man.

But I cannot respect motherf♪♫♫♪rs calling something a simulator, when it isn't one.[/quote]

Mors edited this post first.
It's actually 3 for me. I never did uber lab, probably never will. I can agree that the 3 first lab feel mandatory, the 4th one is totally optional and luxury..
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ShaUrley wrote:
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Emphasy wrote:
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ShaUrley wrote:
no one would be fixated on the principle that the lab is the only legitimate way to earn ascendancy points.


Actually nobody said that.

You clearly haven't been reading the lab threads.


Of course people don't want them to be handed out basically for free like Doing Malachai. But an actual alternative which is similar in difficulty to the lab is something that I have not found much opposition against. The truth though is the earliest point we might see such a mechanic is 3.1 or in about a year, because it needs to have a purpose besides getting ascendancies otherwise it is not worth it to put time and effort into it. So crafting an alternative means also giving it a purpose. So it would have to be in the next expansion after 3.0 and depending if 3.1 is only a new league similar to Prophecy we might see something like this in 3.1 or 3.2 depending which of the Patchs are actually bringing new content.

It might of course be possible that 3.0 has something already in place, but unless it was already planned that is not very likely.

The issue those people had are that people seem to expect GGG to come up with an alternative way tomorrow... or better yesterday. And it either needs a lot of time to do it right or they are just not feeling that it is worth spending time on it.

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I am removing my kaom's heart when facing uber trials in order to make it easier for myself. I wonder if that's good design for an arpg; removing arguably the best/most defensive chest in the game in order to make it easier for yourself. The sad thing is that even when removing it i still have 6k hp so i need to remove more pieces of gear if i want to be safe.


How about... uhm... Not stepping on traps?
How about you understand how idiotic it is, to be doing that in order to make it easier for myself. There are some traps that are not evadeable so you have to step on one or two once in a while.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Sep 18, 2016, 8:39:24 AM
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Pyrokar wrote:
I am removing my kaom's heart when facing uber trials in order to make it easier for myself. I wonder if that's good design for an arpg; removing arguably the best/most defensive chest in the game in order to make it easier for yourself. The sad thing is that even when removing it i still have 6k hp so i need to remove more pieces of gear if i want to be safe. LOL


Why would you do that ? Traps are %based anyway. You could have 100 hp or 100k hp, it wouldn't change anything to the number of traps you can trigger before dying.
And honestly, I have no idea how people can die to traps. Especially life based chars, who can basically run through everything and power their way with quicksilver and life flasks.
Last edited by Dawmz#5618 on Sep 18, 2016, 8:41:50 AM
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Sure_K4y wrote:

The lab punishes certain builds for being what they are. If you run vaal pact, or eldritch battery, or spectres, you're in for a nasty ride, so you better have someone to carry you through. That being said, the lab does not present a level playing field. It's not a matter of how good your build is, and how many exalteds you invested in gear, certain keystones or skills put you at the disadvantage before you even start running it.

This is a simple matter of fact that has been ignored during the design of the lab from the beginning, and is not only getting ignored still, but has been made even worse with the implementation of the uber-lab, and the ridiculous dmg that uber izaro can dish out, along with some new, mostly annoying mechanics. The lab is a grinding ground for OP builds, like pathfinder BV, or Juggernauts and other specific builds, like dedicated boss-killers.

And don't get me started on the occasional disconnect that everyone has once in a while. This is a forced online game, and one DC in the lab means all progress in the lab is lost. What is there to like about it? Disconnects happen to everyone, the question is not *if*, the question is *when*.

This is just the facts, and there's no way on earth that this could be considered good game design in a game that prides itself with its build-diversity, or what little of that there may be left. Build diversity means allowing for different builds to play properly throughout, build diversity does not mean you have to have specific builds to grind specific content. The lab does not allow for this build diversity to happen in an enjoyable fashion, because of the reasons previously stated.



On a personal note, I don't like the lab, at all. It is a nerve-wrecking time-sink, with important character progression gated behind it, that is lightyears from being "optional". One may argue that way back when we killed uber atziri without ascendancies, but the game's changed since then, and so have builds.

On a side note I would like for GGG to realize that they can do nothing to get this game away from a clearspeed oriented meta, unless they completely "erase and rewind", but I digress...

The worst part for me is this "one try only mentality", the "thrill of a hardcore experience". I simply do not have the time or the patience for this anymore. Back in the days, when I played Diablo2 a lot, I had that time. I was a dedicated hardcore only player, I could recover from a character loss reasonably quickly, because I could spend a day or two more or less no-lifing my way back to something half-decent. Now I have less time on my hands, so I chose not to play hardcore, and I would like it if the game, and it's devs, had the courtesy of respecting my decision of enrolling in a softcore experience.

Wow, there seem to be a lot of bad faith there.

So quickly :
- Having vaal pact makes the lab a tiny bit more difficult compared to normal builds, it's completely doable on a VP char, and not too hard. = not nasty
I will agree that if EB, the ES should probably ignored, never thought about that one in the lab.

- Lots of people see Izaro's mechanics as actually interesting, it is one of the most interesting fight in PoE, by far. For people that liking brainlessly zerging blindly everything, sure it force them to think, so might not like that process I guess.

- All builds can go through the lab. It's BS to call build diversity when it's convenient like this, all endgame viable enough builds can do the lab ( and most of them can Uber, the problem being Izaro. I cannot say if they all can so I will go with "most" here ).
I does make the boss fight difficult for glass canons, which is a good thing, it teaches glass-canons that some parts of the game will kill them if they are not very, very, very careful.
This is a good game design.

You know what is a bad game design ? Allowing everybody with even more than fucked up builds to be able to go through the content like it's nothing, that would be a bad design.

- The time argument is a nonsense, going through the lab does not take a lot of time, and the learning process to go through it takes much, much, much less time that the crazy amount of knowledge needed to reach endgame and go through maps comfortably.

That was not that quick at the end heh, knew it lol.
SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
Tonnes of money and PoE workers have been spent designing and testing lab.

It's a huge kick in the guts for GGG to have to minimise lab. Because they worked so hard for it.

So it's not going to happen. They don't wanna admit they are wrong.
The rest of the 'end-game' content will be available along with a heap of new stuff when the game launches in a few months time. From what I've seen it's going to be awesome. - Michael_GGG
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Dawmz wrote:
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Pyrokar wrote:
I am removing my kaom's heart when facing uber trials in order to make it easier for myself. I wonder if that's good design for an arpg; removing arguably the best/most defensive chest in the game in order to make it easier for yourself. The sad thing is that even when removing it i still have 6k hp so i need to remove more pieces of gear if i want to be safe. LOL


Why would you do that ? Traps are %based anyway. You could have 100 hp or 100k hp, it wouldn't change anything to the number of traps you can trigger before dying.
And honestly, I have no idea how people can die to traps. Especially life based chars, who can basically run through everything and power their way with quicksilver and life flasks.


I am doing that because i take damage faster and life flasks heal less % if i have a high life pool.
I'm a forum warrior, i was born to post, raised to defend my league. Now my post has been removed, chained and exiled by mods who Ban. Ban is my brother; i do not fear it. I see it in the eyes of men and beasts that i troll. It will take me to play the actual game when i am ready and i am not ready.
Last edited by Pyrokar#6587 on Sep 18, 2016, 8:46:54 AM
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Dawmz wrote:
OH yeah, 3*15 mins to get the points, what a no-life, hardcore experience.


This falsehood again, please face reality! Look at the labyrinth ladder for standard normal. The median is usually around 40 minutes NOT 15 minutes. Chris Wilson prior to release said to expect 45 to an hour to complete, which would be reasonable.

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Dawmz wrote:
It's actually 3 for me.


Great! Good for you! We are not talking about you though. The discussion is people that do not like doing labyrinth. People that do it as little as possible and what average times would be not what fastest times would be.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
Last edited by Turtledove#4014 on Sep 18, 2016, 8:50:01 AM
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Turtledove wrote:
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Dawmz wrote:
OH yeah, 3*15 mins to get the points, what a no-life, hardcore experience.


This falsehood again, please face reality! Look at the labyrinth ladder for standard normal. The median is usually around 40 minutes NOT 15 minutes. Chris Wilson prior to release said to expect 45 to an hour to complete, which would be reasonable.


Then learn to play the game, what else can I say ? If you do the lab overlevelled because you hate it, it should take you 15 mins tops.

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