Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

Just put some checkpoints, thats all the lab needs, everything its solved that way, the lab stays there the same and everyone is happy.

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frenrihr wrote:

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Emphasy wrote:

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1- i didnt chose to play hardcore, i just wanted to have fun in an ARPG collecting crap and killing hordes of fuckers, so it DOSENT respect my desicions.

This is not a good reason. Because it is not hardcore. You can die as often as you want. And it isn't even the first somehow hardcore element in Standard. Zanas one Portal Missions are actually even more hardcore by this definition because you can't try again. Doing Bandits is pretty hardcore too, because you have to start over.

I compared it to hardcore because its similar, you lose all your progression of that part of the game, people like me dont play hardcore because we dont like to lose progression, time and frustration, we wantr to just enjoy our time in the game, challenges are good but there is a fine line betweeen a good challenge and acheap abussive system.


Like i said, just put some fucking checkpoints everything gets solved by that.

Yes, and GGG compared it to HC in the pre-release hype. Saying something along the lines that they wanted SC players to feel the thrill of accomplishment on completion that HC players feel. <bite tongue, bang head against wall>

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frenrihr wrote:

Just put some checkpoints, thats all the lab needs, everything its solved that way, the lab stays there the same and everyone is happy.

Everyone happy? What color is the sky in your world?

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Turtledove wrote:

Yes, and GGG compared it to HC in the pre-release hype. Saying something along the lines that they wanted SC players to feel the thrill of accomplishment on completion that HC players feel. <bite tongue, bang head against wall>

I'm not sure if that qualifies as a comparison. But if that is a reason and an issue, I feel like even that can be solved without doing things all over again. I'm not sure if the lab should be something you can just bruteforce yourself through at this point it becomes very random and they could just hand out Ascendancies for free anyway.

So you should try to avoid death. There is a certain Prophecy that could actually do just that. Right now it provides you one additional Enchantment, but it could in addition to that allow you to respawn at the checkpoint (iE the entrance of the current area) once. This would make it a bit less hardcore because it would allow for at least one mistake.

And of course they have to do something about DCs. Waypoints are an option but have a few technical limitations due to how rewarding the lab is. Being able to open a Divination Card box every 30 seconds is propably not good, so they need a way to store the state of the lab, without requiring a lot of memory. Allowing players to reconnect to their instance in the lab (or actually in general) would be a decent option, considering that almost all DCs or Crashes when you enter an instance are resolved with a single restart, which doesn't take much time and it should be possible to keep the character where it is and allow players to simply resume where they took off. Because often when you DC you log back in and notice your instances are all still there... so why not put the character right back in there if the player wants to (it should be a choice, because maybe you DCed in the middle of a boss fight and don't want to get back in there).

But that is something that should be possible in general. The lab just makes it very obvious that such tech is desirable.

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Turtledove wrote:

Yes, and GGG compared it to HC in the pre-release hype. Saying something along the lines that they wanted SC players to feel the thrill of accomplishment on completion that HC players feel. <bite tongue, bang head against wall>

Lol people is just over leveling the zone or being carried... Kriparrian started a new character for this league and he a veteran of this game said that it was like the worst shit that happened to POE, he paid people for carrying him through the lab, like seriously, i even read a lot of that "looking for a carry for lab" on chat...

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Emphasy wrote:

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ShaUrley wrote:

no one would be fixated on the principle that the lab is the only legitimate way to earn ascendancy points.

Actually nobody said that.

You clearly haven't been reading the lab threads.

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frenrihr wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Yes, and GGG compared it to HC in the pre-release hype. Saying something along the lines that they wanted SC players to feel the thrill of accomplishment on completion that HC players feel. <bite tongue, bang head against wall>

Lol people is just over leveling the zone or being carried... Kriparrian started a new character for this league and he a veteran of this game said that it was like the worst shit that happened to POE, he paid people for carrying him through the lab, like seriously, i even read a lot of that "looking for a carry for lab" on chat...

Kripp is pretty smart guy. I used to really dislike him but he is usually right on what he says and he is charismatic and sells himself well.

I'm gonna have to agree with Kripp, eventhough I never liked him all that much. The Lab is a mess, and there's no point in arguing about it. It also doesn't matter if you like it or hate it, it's a mess regardless of how you people "feel" about it.

The lab punishes certain builds for being what they are. If you run vaal pact, or eldritch battery, or spectres, you're in for a nasty ride, so you better have someone to carry you through. That being said, the lab does not present a level playing field. It's not a matter of how good your build is, and how many exalteds you invested in gear, certain keystones or skills put you at the disadvantage before you even start running it.

This is a simple matter of fact that has been ignored during the design of the lab from the beginning, and is not only getting ignored still, but has been made even worse with the implementation of the uber-lab, and the ridiculous dmg that uber izaro can dish out, along with some new, mostly annoying mechanics. The lab is a grinding ground for OP builds, like pathfinder BV, or Juggernauts and other specific builds, like dedicated boss-killers.

And don't get me started on the occasional disconnect that everyone has once in a while. This is a forced online game, and one DC in the lab means all progress in the lab is lost. What is there to like about it? Disconnects happen to everyone, the question is not *if*, the question is *when*.

This is just the facts, and there's no way on earth that this could be considered good game design in a game that prides itself with its build-diversity, or what little of that there may be left. Build diversity means allowing for different builds to play properly throughout, build diversity does not mean you have to have specific builds to grind specific content. The lab does not allow for this build diversity to happen in an enjoyable fashion, because of the reasons previously stated.



On a personal note, I don't like the lab, at all. It is a nerve-wrecking time-sink, with important character progression gated behind it, that is lightyears from being "optional". One may argue that way back when we killed uber atziri without ascendancies, but the game's changed since then, and so have builds.

On a side note I would like for GGG to realize that they can do nothing to get this game away from a clearspeed oriented meta, unless they completely "erase and rewind", but I digress...

The worst part for me is this "one try only mentality", the "thrill of a hardcore experience". I simply do not have the time or the patience for this anymore. Back in the days, when I played Diablo2 a lot, I had that time. I was a dedicated hardcore only player, I could recover from a character loss reasonably quickly, because I could spend a day or two more or less no-lifing my way back to something half-decent. Now I have less time on my hands, so I chose not to play hardcore, and I would like it if the game, and it's devs, had the courtesy of respecting my decision of enrolling in a softcore experience.

I'm not asking much here. So can we please snap out of it, GGG? There is no "hardcore thrill" in a softcore-environment. There merely is a potential "loss of time" (not talking exp loss here), which translates to "annoyance". That is it in a nutshell, and it does not matter how big a carrot on a stick you dangle in front of the players, because a considerable chunk of the playerbase (if not most) just wants their 2 points, and never see that disgrace of place again for the remainder of the league.

In all due honesty, I don't care about grinding helm enchants, I don't care about Izaro's treasures, and I'm not alone in that regard. If people want to go on a "treasure hunt" in the lab, that is fine by me. I'm all for having different ways of earning currency, but I'm not okay with being forced to go through this place at least 4 times, just to be able to allocate the most important nodes on my passive tree. If there was a button that says: Get all ascendancy points after completing the trials in their respective difficulty, and killing an unbuffed (uber) izaro, I would click the living hell out of that button, and get it over with.

I am removing my kaom's heart when facing uber trials in order to make it easier for myself. I wonder if that's good design for an arpg; removing arguably the best/most defensive chest in the game in order to make it easier for yourself. The sad thing is that even when removing it i still have 6k hp so i need to remove more pieces of gear if i want to be safe. LOL

Balance!

OH yeah, 3*15 mins to get the points, what a no-life, hardcore experience.