Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

I am sorry, I am assuming that people supposedly know the words that they are usings.
If nothing is specified, the standard definition applies, simple as that.

You can make up whatever words you want and put whatever incorrect definitions you want, but then don't expect people to understand you and want to have actuall discussions with you, and enjoy it.
Languages and words have rules, respect them, or be prepared for communication troubles.

The original point was : lab isn't "unfair", how the poster used the words did not make sense, he was miss-using the word to try to justify himself.
Everything on him there.
Now adding a specific context to justify the use of the words and being precise in using them could actually open up a discussion.
But that's not what he did, obviously because he didn't have anything specific to start with, just plain QQ all over again.



As an example, it's like if someone would say something as stupid as :
"The lab should go because the lab is not clear" !!
..........
I would react the same way : "what ? the lab is not 'unclear', your sentence does not make sense".
Some parts of it might be not clear in a way, that would be argued over I guess.
But just a sentence like that would be plain wrong, semanticly messed up.


"the lab is unfair" on it's own does not mean anything to start with, it's a miss-use of the words, period.

Lab is shit. Make POE great again! remove it along with the ascendancy bullshit.

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Fruz wrote:

If nothing is specified, the standard definition applies, simple as that.

I quoted a "standard definition". It is sufficiently general and does not limit the usage to persons.

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Fruz wrote:

You can make up whatever words you want and put whatever incorrect definitions you want,

I am not aware of making up words or using "incorrect definitions". Nor have you shown any "incorrect definition".

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Fruz wrote:

The original point was : lab isn't "unfair", how the poster used the words did not make sense, he was miss-using the word to try to justify himself.

No, I did not specifically refer to any single statement by a poster here. I (deliberately) made a general statement.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

When i said "Not fair especially for hardcore" i meant it in regards that you have only one life & dying (doesn't matter how - maybe by your mistake maybe by the awful design of the Lab) immediately after would be unfair.

Mind you, that's the same as saying Shaper is unfair to HC because there's a higher chance of dying there. Who knows, his bubbles might align in a way that makes it impossible to survive and that would also be dying because of 'poor encounter design'.

Risky content is not unfair to HC by design, it's your job as a player to evaluate the risk.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

[...]

Let's keep it quick and simple :
Not, it's not your opinion there, it's the fact that you miss-used words (on purpose or not, I cannot tell) because you were trying to justify your QQ : it still has not worked.


Baiscally, dying is unfair now ? What is that new invention lol ? No it isn't, I can see that you are trying to find a way to get out of that silly statement you made now, but you can't, because it was silly.

I guess you don't understand what majority means either considering what you just said, sooo many problems with words it seems ....

The baseball analogy had absolutely nothing to do with fun, it is absolutely and completely irrelevant.


[edit: ^my bad about that one, missread what I quoted. I removed some unecessary things, and put that miss of mine in spoiler]

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

Mind you, that's the same as saying Shaper is unfair to HC because there's a higher chance of dying there. Who knows, his bubbles might align in a way that makes it impossible to survive and that would also be dying because of 'poor encounter design'.

Risky content is not unfair to HC by design, it's your job as a player to evaluate the risk.

I honestly think that it's pointless.

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raics wrote:

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

When i said "Not fair especially for hardcore" i meant it in regards that you have only one life & dying (doesn't matter how - maybe by your mistake maybe by the awful design of the Lab) immediately after would be unfair.

Mind you, that's the same as saying Shaper is unfair to HC because there's a higher chance of dying there. Who knows, his bubbles might align in a way that makes it impossible to survive and that would also be dying because of 'poor encounter design'.

Risky content is not unfair to HC by design, it's your job as a player to evaluate the risk.

Oh, don't get me started on Shaper. It's blatantly obvious how unfair it is to hardcore. Anything that punishes you for getting defence over offence is unfair and since the fight is deadlier the longer it lasts, that is definitely the case with shaper. If you are talking bad design for hc Shaper is up there and lab traps follow right behind.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

As you can see i don't imply that "the lab is unfair" but rather that "having Ascendancy bind to it is" & Hardcore just enhances it because you only have 1 Life. A build-defining content binded to the Lab, that is not a prerequisite in reality to progress the game, is despite that forced upon us. The same way i feel about traps. I don't imply to remove both because that would be the whole Lab. I have stated that removing either is more than enough to balance the Lab as a whole.

Fair enough. The way I see it, it's the same thing as farming a hard but rewarding boss, if the reward is high enough you will do it when the risk becomes low enough, kinda goes without saying but it's especially true in HC. If a player is not sure of his ability to safely complete the lab at that point he will delay it until his chances are good enough but he will get it eventually, the lab isn't fully cockblocking his character progress, just slowing it down. I suppose it would be the case if you were fully unable to advance without ascendancy points, right.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

[...]

Actually the previous post was my mistake, I missread and thought that you ripped in the lab on this particular charm, so that's my bad there.
No time to read the rest right now though, later.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

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raics wrote:

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

When i said "Not fair especially for hardcore" i meant it in regards that you have only one life & dying (doesn't matter how - maybe by your mistake maybe by the awful design of the Lab) immediately after would be unfair.

Mind you, that's the same as saying Shaper is unfair to HC because there's a higher chance of dying there. Who knows, his bubbles might align in a way that makes it impossible to survive and that would also be dying because of 'poor encounter design'.

Risky content is not unfair to HC by design, it's your job as a player to evaluate the risk.

What i said was :

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

Point being that removing Ascendancy from Lab would be just, fair because now it isn't, especially for Hardcore.

As you can see i don't imply that "the lab is unfair" but rather that "having Ascendancy bind to it is" & Hardcore just enhances it because you only have 1 Life. A build-defining content binded to the Lab, that is not a prerequisite in reality to progress the game, is despite that forced upon us. The same way i feel about traps. I don't imply to remove both because that would be the whole Lab. I have stated that removing either is more than enough to balance the Lab as a whole.

This how i define what i said about "fairness" and "fun". I do not in any way imply that this is their absolute definition for every situation.

Other than that, i don't disagree with your statement, though i tried not to direct the discussion out of the Lab, which was what i was referring to.

Something can suck without being unfair. Take the Yugo a not so fine piece of automotive technology. No one said it was unfair just that it was really unpleasant to be in. And yes I worked for a car dealership that had a few. The Lab is like the Yugo content of POE.

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

As you can see i don't imply that "the lab is unfair" but rather that "having Ascendancy bind to it is" & Hardcore just enhances it because you only have 1 Life

This does make a bit more sense, as a starter.
Not that it is backed up by anything consistent to me though.
You could say the same thing of the act 3 having some many bosses, that you would find it unfair to get the progression behind so many boss encounters.
As an example of course.
But the world of wraeclast isn't fair lore-wise to the main character, like ever to be honest, none of the story is.
All the characters are being treated inequally by different elements and being thrown in Wraeclast while their opponent are mostly geared by what's backing them up. That is all unfair, and that is all part of the character's developement and the story.

The fact that you have one life, if anything, makes it more difficult compared to usual for SC, not HC, as raics pointed out already ( and others I guess, I probably did too ).
There would be things that have a x% change to kill you without you being able to do anything about it .... that would be something that I would understand.


Now you don't like the lab, and you don't enjoy having to go through it (as many others), I understand that, but about "fairness" ... ?
No need to bring it here honestly.