Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

"

Zrevnur wrote:

I am not familiar with such "subculture" definitions/common_uses. Nor would I expect everybody posting here to be. Which is part of my point.
I didnt even know there was a "special gaming subculture meaning" of the word 'fair'.

You saw it yourself, you can't use the usual definition, it doesn't fit.

That's because it applies to player behavior, not game conditions. A PvP game has rules because players need to follow them and they are the same for both sides, a PvE game has rules to give you a predictable playing environment, those are two different things.

It is expected we should be familiar with the common terms and concepts, you can't really participate in the discussion if you aren't. Try following a DoTA match commentary without knowing what jungling or mid lane is.

"

raics wrote:

It is expected we should be familiar with the common terms and concepts, you can't really participate in the discussion if you aren't.

But the people posting here are a mixed group. Especially in lab threads there are (IME) a lot of posters who dont have such a background as you. These terms/definitions you speak of are consequently not "common" to all the people posting here. If you demand everybody adheres to this "expected to be familiar..." then you exclude a lot people. I do not believe that this is consistent with what the thread starter wants. The idea is (far as I understand) to get as many complaints about the lab as possible. So demanding "adherence to terms" for posters doesnt make sense in this context.
--
That to say if there are such "common subculture terms" etc I dont see any harm in explaining them and pointing them out. But I did not (at all) get the impression that anybody was trying to do this before I made my first post about "fair".

This is exciting. Let's keep debating the definition and usage of the word fair for the next few hours.

Did you guys know there's a guy with no hands playing POE who can complete lab? Feeling that warm blush of shame rise on your cheeks yet?

No? Too busy padding this thread? So the OP can start the sequel and add a couple hundred more "posts by people who hate the lab" to his ad populum based argument for why his subjective tastes are "right" and others are "wrong"?

870 posters? Why... that's probably a whole 0.6% of the concurrent playerbase. Apparently 0.6% is the number of people who aren't ashamed to admit publicly that they can't hack middling amounts of eye hand coordination IN A GAME! I mean it's almost no skill required if you actually slow down and time the traps, can't slow down can you?

We get it there are people who hate the lab, because they are atrocious at playing games or they have unrealistic and irrational desires to play a hard core ARPG "gotta go fast" with only 1 button held down and only running forward. Apparently they missed Temple Run and downloaded POE accidentally. GGG has surely heard your concerns some of them might even have a sympathetic ear; they probably wish they could link you to Temple Run without seeming arrogant about it.

Lab is part of the game, it's content, like Atziri, or Shaper, you've decided that you are entitled to Ascendancy points because past RPG's have conditioned you to believe only gear is locked behind challenges as a risk versus reward mechanic. Believe it or not, there's no laws in place here, no physical laws of the universe dictate that you can't put a beefy character defining reward behind a puzzle or series of mild challenges, or a boss fight (all three in this case). Nor for that matter a flippin Sudoku mini game if they want. The response by some, the sheer sense of entitlement, the arrogant assumption that YOUR SUBJECTIVE proprietary view of what should be rewarded is a thing of astonishment to me.

"

alhazred70 wrote:

...snip...
870 posters? Why... that's probably a whole 0.6% of the concurrent playerbase. Apparently 0.6% is the number of people who aren't ashamed to admit publicly that they can't hack middling amounts of eye hand coordination IN A GAME! I mean it's almost no skill required if you actually slow down and time the traps, can't slow down can you?

The problem with labyrinth is not the difficulty. The problem with labyrinth is that it is not fun and is a different game play from the rest of PoE and many feel does not belong in an ARPG. It fits better in a console game with the other platform type games. For example, a console controller is a better more positive control for a platform type game than a mouse click interface. So labyrinth is just an inferior platformer type game play.

The only real use we have to that number is proving that there's more than a handful of people that dislike something in labyrinth. And yes there are more paranoid conspiracy theorists running around here that believe that nonsense than most would probably guess. Here's how GGG might possibly use that number you mention. If X players post in the Feedback and Suggestions forum over the past year then 770/X gives an estimate of what the floor is for percentage of players disliking something about labyrinth. That is about 100 of the account names on the list came from a Developers Manifesto thread. That figure might also be used to further refine an estimate by GGG.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Shovelcut has apparently refused to respond to my request for an explanation as to what he thinks the lie is.

I went to bed. lol

But seriously, why should I even give you the courtesy of a response when you reply with shit like this:

"

Turtledove wrote:

And what does the person with zero respect from me claim has changed?

The fact is that this thread has evolved into something other than what it was originally intended as. It started off demonstrating that there were lots of hate threads, it became a petition that people unknowingly join by voicing even the slightest dislike for the laby. Is that not change? Actually, don't answer that. I'm not going to bother responding to your bullshit anymore.

"

Turtledove wrote:

The problem with labyrinth is not the difficulty. The problem with labyrinth is that it is not fun

Fun is subjective, I just did normal and Cruel and found myself cussing when Izzaro killed me with just a sliver, but that frustration made it all the sweeter when I went back in and got him the second time. I did it without looking up the layout on POElab.com I quite enjoyed it. I know not everyone has fun doing it, but fortunately POE has carries, a phenomenon I would never have dreamed of back in the early days of Diablo. But hey some people just aren't gamers and if they want to experience content by being dragged through it like a 10,000bc cavewomen stereotype that's their business.

Now we all know "annoying" and "unfun" are just code for "not 30 second shaped strand facerolling". We can all read between the lines, if it was just annoying you'd get a carry 4 times per character, approximately 8 minutes per run and roll your eyes mutter how annoying that was and move along. The lab is actually a tiny part of the game that is intentionally like a Rogue-like dungeon paying homage to the genre that spawned the APRG.

I see all sorts of hysterical hyperbole about how GGG sucks at life and totally killed kittens by putting Lab in the game. Nope "annoyed" doesn't get hundreds of pages of crying and super salty GGG personal attacking outrage. I've seen this too often on gaming forums, "annoyed" is ALWAYS the preferred word because it's less embarrassing to say something is "unfun" than it is to say "I die too much and it makes me want to throw a chair".

This argument is about vocal complainers with an unwarranted sense of propriety about what "belongs" in a game they didn't design, and don't own. There's not an argument in this 160 page thread that doesn't amount to entitlement and dictating propriety.

TL;DR Fun is subjective, this is a Hard core game, perhaps not designed for people who can't manage to do with two hands what one handicaped guy does with only his mouth.

Oh one more thought I remember when Diablo 3 came out and the hardest difficulty setting was being assaulted by the same types of people who are complaining about lab here.

Guess what their favorite line was on the D3 forums? "It's not hard it's just ANNOYING".

Of course fun is subjective. That is OBVIOUS. As for the rest of your post, you are simply claiming that you know better than others what other people are thinking and feeling. Even if you have a PhD in Psychology and behavior science, I find that difficult to believe.

"

Turtledove wrote:

As for the rest of your post, you are simply claiming that you know better than others what other people are thinking and feeling.

The way I see it, he's claiming that people are thinking or feeling something entirely different from what they're saying. It isn't exactly unheard of but it's kinda hard to check.