Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support DONE!!!!!

Even if you have an anti trap build, traps can kill you quickly if you really screw up.

This is about the only piece off content like that, if you have 15k ES, instant leech and high damage, you can basically stand and destroy everything that the game has to offer ( Maybe but for Uber Atziri I guess, not completely sure, bonkers of dmg kinda trivialize it from what Ive heard/seen ).
But traps.


But I do hope that GGG will reduced the "cheezing potential" here.

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Zrevnur wrote:

Traps are not challenging if you have an anti-trap build.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with X not being challenging if you got an anti-X build, that's one of the staples of character customization system. If you got an anti lab build good for you, if I got a harder time in the lab than you I might have an easier time with something else. In PoE the problem aren't anti-X builds, it's anti-everything builds that put the spoke in the wheel.

You might not want to guess their reasoning and that's fine too, but don't expect to understand why they did it then. And complaining without understanding how or why is ignorant to say the least.

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Fruz wrote:

Even if you have an anti trap build, traps can kill you quickly if you really screw up.

This is about the only piece off content like that, if you have 15k ES, instant leech and high damage, you can basically stand and destroy everything that the game has to offer ( Maybe but for Uber Atziri I guess, not completely sure, bonkers of dmg kinda trivialize it from what Ive heard/seen ).
But traps.

But this is just not true. You have claimed the same before. Lets iterate:
- ~10 endurance charges
- 25+% life regen (with unique Vaal Regalia etc)
- CI ZO
- Leo craft => 15% reduced damage taken from DoT
- Pathfinder with multiple basalt, you can have 100% uptime without mobs; there may be other Ascendancies which are good for such a build it but I am less familiar with them

Lab traps are with this much easier than your facetank example. You would need to screwup extremely over several seconds to rip with such a setup.

I did some experiment with my CI ZO Hierophant when doing uber lab. Only had ~10% life regen and 5 endurance charges, no flasks used. I could stand in a saw lane (not super short one but not long one either) and would take some damage when the saws did go through. But before they were back I had regenerated it completely. With this setup lab traps are already "relatively easy". With the full setup they become trivial.

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raics wrote:

You might not want to guess their reasoning and that's fine too, but don't expect to understand why they did it then.

Understanding why they did it is not my goal. The main reason why I dont like it is not about game balance. Its because thematically it makes no sense to me. If I put more points into life and then I get killed faster that makes no sense(*). Thats my biggest "complaint" about the %life trap damage system.

(*) Spike trap if I have armour.

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Zrevnur wrote:

If I put more points into life and then I get killed faster that makes no sense(*).

(*) Spike trap if I have armour.

What do you mean faster? If it takes a hit and a 3s bleed to kill you it will be the same regardless of your hit points, a higher life pool won't help you but won't harm you either. If you meant that it takes more life pot points to refill it, that's something else.

Armor will help you a bit but I suppose it wasn't the point.

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raics wrote:

"

Zrevnur wrote:

If I put more points into life and then I get killed faster that makes no sense(*).

(*) Spike trap if I have armour.

What do you mean faster? If it takes a hit and a 3s bleed to kill you it will be the same regardless of your hit points, a higher life pool won't help you but won't harm you either. If you meant that it takes more life pot points to refill it, that's something else.

Armor will help you a bit but I suppose it wasn't the point.

Quoting example from older post to showcase the point:

"

Example using "Absolute Physical Damage Reduction" formula from http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Armour and assuming a spike trap does 40% of max life - not sure this is correct but the concept is the same anyway:

5K life, 10K armour:
=> Spike does 2K before armour
=> Armour removes ~667 of the damage
=> ~1333 damage done after armour
damage is ~= 27% of character life

10K life, 10K armour:
=> Spike does 4K before armour
=> Armour removes 800 of the damage
=> 3200 damage done after armour
damage is == 32% of character life

So the ground spike does more relative damage if the life value is higher.

I have also read comment/s on reddit indicating that this is noticeable in practice too (using Kaom body vs not using it).

Edit: Adding (somewhat tangentially): So more life on armour character double dips against using life flasks vs ground spike damage.

Ah, that. Well, that doesn't mean more life flat out equals more damage taken, that means more life renders armor less effective. It will never increase the damage you take past the amount you would if you had no armor.

Isn't that a good thing? Some complain that it isn't a good thing that armor can somewhat protect you and evasion can't.

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raics wrote:

Ah, that. Well, that doesn't mean more life flat out equals more damage taken, that means more life renders armor less effective. It will never increase the damage you take past the amount you would if you had no armor.

Isn't that a good thing?

Whether you phrase it this way or that way the relevant point for my "not thematically making sense" is that you die faster if you add life to the respective build. I dont think (if that was unclear?) that this "dieing faster with more life" is a good thing.

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raics wrote:

Some complain that it isn't a good thing that armor can somewhat protect you and evasion can't.

At least this is somewhat consistent with the rest of the game. Evasion doesnt work vs spell/secondary damage either. Not that I would design it like that though...

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Zrevnur wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Even if you have an anti trap build, traps can kill you quickly if you really screw up.

This is about the only piece off content like that, if you have 15k ES, instant leech and high damage, you can basically stand and destroy everything that the game has to offer ( Maybe but for Uber Atziri I guess, not completely sure, bonkers of dmg kinda trivialize it from what Ive heard/seen ).
But traps.

But this is just not true. You have claimed the same before. Lets iterate:
- ~10 endurance charges
- 25+% life regen (with unique Vaal Regalia etc)
- CI ZO
- Leo craft => 15% reduced damage taken from DoT
- Pathfinder with multiple basalt, you can have 100% uptime without mobs; there may be other Ascendancies which are good for such a build it but I am less familiar with them

Lab traps are with this much easier than your facetank example. You would need to screwup extremely over several seconds to rip with such a setup.

Or be stunned by a spike trap on the edge of a sawblade, under the effect of a %increased damage taken totem.
It's rare obviously, but it's often rare situations that kill people in higher level I believe.


And no, a 15kES instant leech char immune to stun and freeze will just soak up everything and get instantly back to full life, but for traps.

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Understanding why they did it is not my goal. The main reason why I dont like it is not about game balance. Its because thematically it makes no sense to me.

It makes perfect sense, but you don't understand it.
Weather you push your character's body to be extremely well trained (inc life), a sawblade will just cut through your foot the same way, it won't matter.

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Fruz wrote:

Or be stunned by a spike trap on the edge of a sawblade, under the effect of a %increased damage taken totem.
It's rare obviously, but it's often rare situations that kill people in higher level I believe.

There is "no way" this will kill you. You need to come up with a lot worse. With the full setup which I posted you can probably facetank this situation indefinitely anyway.

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Fruz wrote:

And no, a 15kES instant leech char immune to stun and freeze will just soak up everything and get instantly back to full life, but for traps.

If you screw up positioning for 2 secs and fail to hit stuff and take some Shaper balls (or whatever) in the face you will die. There is no trap analogon to that with the anti trap build. You can do any kind of positioning screwup for 2 seconds and will not die to it.

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Fruz wrote:

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Understanding why they did it is not my goal. The main reason why I dont like it is not about game balance. Its because thematically it makes no sense to me.

It makes perfect sense, but you don't understand it.
Weather you push your character's body to be extremely well trained (inc life), a sawblade will just cut through your foot the same way, it won't matter.

Quoting again:

"

Example using "Absolute Physical Damage Reduction" formula from http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Armour and assuming a spike trap does 40% of max life - not sure this is correct but the concept is the same anyway:

5K life, 10K armour:
=> Spike does 2K before armour
=> Armour removes ~667 of the damage
=> ~1333 damage done after armour
damage is ~= 27% of character life

10K life, 10K armour:
=> Spike does 4K before armour
=> Armour removes 800 of the damage
=> 3200 damage done after armour
damage is == 32% of character life

So the ground spike does more relative damage if the life value is higher.

Now explain how this "makes perfect sense"?

"

Zrevnur wrote:

Now explain how this "makes perfect sense"?

The bigger they are, the harder they fall? :)